A Different Reality

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by TrainDozer, Dec 3, 2009.

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  1. TrainDozer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    I know this is completely illogical to the OT, but at the end of the Episode III video game, Obi-Wan misses Anikin after the "I have the high ground now" part and Anikin thrusts his blade through Obi-Wan's torso, thus killing Obi-Wan and keeping himself from being placed in the Vader Suit. He then continues to meet Palpatine, where he is given his new red lightsaber, and directly after, the following happens:

    Palpatine: The galaxy is ours now.

    Palpatine hands Anikin his new saber.

    Palpatine: Your new weapon, Lord Vader.

    Anikin then ignites his saber and kills Palpatine.

    Anikin: No! The Galaxy belongs to me!


    If all this had happened, then there might not be a Luke or Leia, because Padme might not have gotten off of Mustafar alive. This would also mean that if Luke actually did exist, then there would be no Obi-Wan to teach him and he might not have been taken to Tatooine. I do think, however, that there could be an alternate universe where all this happened. It would be interesting if someone made books out of this idea.
  2. BigBoy29 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2004
    star 3
    Marvel Comics had a great series called "WHAT IF ..." in the early 90's.
    It was highly successful and covered everything from "What If Punisher killed Daredevil" to "What If Spider-Man never married Mary Jane".

    I would be first in line to buy stories of this nature as they pertain to GFFA.

    Anakin kills Kenobi on Mustanfar ... hmmm ...

    The big thing is the twins - assume Padme bites the dust and no birth. I would venture to say Anakin learns the Sith teachings, but somewhere down the road, he becomes disenfranchised over the Rebellion and he actually switches sides. Qui-Gon speaks to him via the Force and he decides to join the Rebellion. Being headstrong, and with excellent skills, he has a showdown with Palps and kills him. But leadership is not his forte, he has nothing to motivate him, has nothing to live for, and really is apathetic about the whole Empire/Rebel war. He becomes like a John Rambo, retiring to a simple place, stewing about his mistakes and trying to forgive himself, living in isolation and trying to ignore the Qui-Gon "voices in his head". Eventually he does "one great thing" with his life, and kills all the Grand Moffs that now run Empire. The Rebels start to turn the tide, and Anakin commits suicide without anyone knowing what he did or why he did it.
  3. TrainDozer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    That's a good take on it. But, if there was no Luke and Leia, then Leia would have never been in the Rebel Alliance. Han would have never come into the story at all, except maybe he would have just ended up as a sleazy smuggler who eventually joined the Empire. Owen and Beru would have never really had anything to do with the story. C3-P0 would have never had his memory erased. There are just so many things to take into consideration. Maybe I could write something. I have been known to be a pretty good writer, and I love making up what ifs.
  4. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    C-3P0 says "we have miss Padme on board" when Obi Wan reaches the ship at the end of the Mustafar scene--so her wellbeing and ability to escape wasn't resting on Obi Wan's shoulders. Assuming that the droids would be able to escape--R2 is at least smart enough to figure things out--they would probably contact Bail and the sequence of events would proceed according to the film. However, Luke would stay on Tatooine all his life, and Leia probably wouldn't be as involved for reasons I will get into.

    Anakin, however, is another matter. If Sidious hands him his new lightsaber and then Anakin kills him with it--now what? Okay, so he has inherited the Empire. But he's got a rebellion forming against him and whole galaxy to control.

    Palpatine created and held on to the Empire and kept it surviving for 20 years because he was one of the most brilliant schemers the galaxy had ever known. Anakin--let's face it, he's dense. His temper, short-sightedness, inability to plan long-term, inability to grasp the larger picture, lack of caution, and questionable strategies, would lead to a disastrous Empire that would have been poorly managed and highly unpopular. If the Rebel Alliance hadn't struck it down within 5 years, then an internal coup, mass rebellioin by the people, or a defeat by a competing polity would have seen the death or at least exile of Anakin and the collapse of the Empire. What happens next depends on which ones of these groups does it--the Rebel Alliance or a mass rebellion of the people would have a brief period of anarchy followed by the slow reconstruction of the Republic infrastructure; an internal coup would simply lead to a more efficient Empire after and probably a re-organization of the inferior structure Emperor Anakin had in place; defeat by a competing polity would have a period of anarchy, followed by the introduction of a heavy police state to maintain control and multiple outbreaks of civil war, and probably outside attacks as well, but beyond this depends on the specifics of who these people are.

    My two cents.
  5. TrainDozer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    First of all, thanks Zombie for commenting. Means a lot.

    Ok, about Anakin. I think that after he kills the Emperor, which makes no sense because the Emperor would not be killed by such a weak strike, based on what I've read and seen in games. But, if Anakin somehow did kill the Emperor, he probably would go to retrieve Padme from the droids if they had not left Mustafar or he would have gone to where Padme gave birth and he would kill everyone there and taken Padme and the kids with him or perished at the hands of Yoda in a duel, thus causing the Empire to not exist at all and it would have been a failed attempt, basically making th PT pointless and a series with a stupid ending. If Anakin had not gone after Padme, Luke most likely would have been watched over by Yoda on either Tatooine (which probably would not happen due to the fact that Kenobi suggests leaving him with Owen and Beru) or on Degoba or some other planet, which would lead to a life for Luke filled with Jedi training and he would face Vader more prepared than before. Plus, due to the addition of The Force Unleashed, I can say that the apprentice would still be alive and there could be a showdown of Luke and Yoda vs Vader and the Apprentice. I also wouldn't be against Mace Windu still being alive. He could have been rebuilt by a secret Sith Lord and from then on followed the dark side. Like I said, many options are available to go with. Really, a What If story would be free game for anyone to make up their own alternate paths for the SW timeline to follow.
  6. BigBoy29 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2004
    star 3
    With the advent of the Death Star, I seriously would question the concept of a revolt or uprising in the galaxy. Both attacks on the 2 Death Stars were "one shot deals" so to speak, and with no Luke, no Solo, no Lando, etc. - where would the Rebel success come from?

    Anakin's sense of purpose to lead the Empire ... boy, that is tough call. Does he arrogantly and rashly try his best to rule as Zombie asserts?

    Or does he slink off and just emotionally give up, walking away from the whole messy struggle?

    Whatever the case, I do see an internal struggle within the Empire hierarchy like Zombie does. But in my mind the Moff who's got the hammer (Death Star) will be calling the shots if a void exists with no Anakin/Palps.
  7. TrainDozer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    The reason Anakin stays with Palpatine is the fact that he wants more power. He wants control over the universe, but I guess what ultimately kept him going was the fact that Palpatine was more powerful than him and he tried to overturn the Emperor multiple times. The fact that he wanted something he just couldn't reach made him stay and continually try to beat Palpatine. With no Palpatine, he would actually have to rule. I agree with Zombie on the part of Anakin doing things without much plan, because that is who he is, but back on my idea of maybe he saves his wife and children and he raised two apprentices and never felt overwhelming regret and heartbreak. This lack of agony would lead him to maybe not be evil. He never really wanted to be bad. He was ultimately misunderstood. His intentions were always good, but he never made the correct choices. By saving Padme's life, he never would have completely gone to the dark side. He would have remained neutral, remaining married with a family. Sure, he would have the remorse of killing his best friends, but he ultimately would get what he wanted. The Empire would not be, but because the government had put all their faith in a Galactic Empire, which failed, there would have been no real government, leading to anarchy as Zombie said.

    If there is no Empire, there would be no Imperial soldiers, which means Tarkin would never come into play on this timeline. And without the Emperor, there would be no Death Star because it was his idea to build it.
  8. BigBoy29 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2004
    star 3
    The Death Star was "in play" by AOTC - and remember the 3 amigos standing on the bridge of the Star Destroyer at the conclusion of ROTS - Tarkin was front and center.

    I guess if we could narrow down when exactly Anakin would kill Palps, that would help us formulate what direction the Empire would take - as far the internal chain of command.

    Killing the Emperor just does not seem like the masterstroke that you do, Dozer. Watching ANH makes me believe Tarkin had a good command on the general situation (sans Palps)and "holding the leash" of Anakin; hence in our "What If", Moff Tarkin could act with all the evil magnificence that the Empire needed to rule the galaxy.
  9. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    Ultimately, I suppose a lot of this depends upon the clonetroopers--how do they react? Anakin could simply mop the floor with Tarkin, physically, but there is a larger security force that may be acting according to protocol, defending him; Anakin can't stop the entire Empire. Does the army assume that the second-in-command is in charge if Palpatine is killed? Or did Palpatine not even build in a failsafe to the clones, not caring what happened after he was dead. Maybe part of him wanted the Sith order to go on even if he didn't and would have instructed them to follow his apprentice in place of himself. With the Order 66, that was a secret agreement between Palpatine and the clones directly, it's hard to say what sort of other orders they had they we aren't privy to.

    If he didn't, Anakin would have to take power by force, and the only way to do this would be to basically take the senate or governors hostage and demand that he be given dictatorial recognition, thus avoid the unwinnable fight of taking on the entire Imperial army. Announcing to the Imperial governors, "Palpatine is dead, I'm in charge now," and then drawing a lightsaber at the first protestor in the room might actually intimidate the rest of them into ceding power, even if he's acting illegally and should technically be prosecuted under law.

    A different scenario can be imagined where Anakin reaches the droids on Mustafar, in a mad daze, destroys them when they try to argue with him, and then carries off Padme in the ship. Eventually when she's woken up she would never again love him, and she'd know exactly how bad things are, and either Anakin would go insane, or he would kill her, or she would kill herself if she thought he was taking her hostage and would never let her go (a bit Phantom of the Opera), wanting to keep her forever. In any event, when Padme finally dies/is killed, Anakin would snap, probably go on a murderous rampage for a bit, but eventually he would burn himself out, wander off a broken shell of a man, his mind permanently gone, and simply wander into the sea, or wait, staring blankly, for authorities to execute him or something. I don't think there was really any hope for Anakin in the event that he beats Obi Wan on Mustafar. Ironically enough.
  10. BigBoy29 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2004
    star 3
    Good concluding thought Zombie ... and some would say all hope was lost for Sywalker once Qui-Gon died.

    But I would like to see a story pursue the concept that Jinn could keep "Force Talking" to Anakin. Fragile kid - killing his BFF Kenobi, feeling strong and virile, yet crazy over his wife's death, it's a great recipe for a madman on a suicidal rampage.

    Or is it a recipe for his father figure to have a profound impact on him?

    Maybe a bit of both ...

    So why did Vader not commit suicide (nothing to live for, right?) between ROTS and ESB?

    Why does Suited Vader come across as a card carrying Empire Company Man in ANH? He seems to love the job with much ardor and zeal.

    Many assert that it's straight up fear of Palps. But is it? Really? That's it folks?
    He seems to hate the Rebels and never uttered a peep when Tarkin decides to get busy with the battlestation. On the other hand, one could argue Vader seems apathetic about the whole thing ("A planet destroyed, big whoop")

    So ..... suited Vader was a beaten man who was scared stiff of his master. Fine. I can live with that.

    But in our "WHAT IF", a cocky unscathed Anakin without fear and full of himself might not be so willing to be a Company Man - if you know what i mean.

    I really think the best story would have to have Anakin kill Palps - but I would like to think it was "the last good thing" motive - and then he commits suicide and lets the chips fall where they may with the War.






  11. TrainDozer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    I understand where you both are coming from, but I don't think Anakin would kill himself. Hate himself, yes, but kill himself? I think not. He would kill the Emperor and take command of the Empire. I like zombie's idea of power originally going to someone other than Anakin and he uses someone as an example. Maybe throughout the course of this timeline, he could either become the new Emperor and take control straight away, or he could flee and contemplate from hiding how he could take control of the Empire.

    Maybe after he killed the droids and Padme no longer loves him and dies somehow, Anakin could realize the dark side is not the right way to go. Padme's loss of feelings for him could trigger the same kind of event that Luke triggered later on. He could be fighting the Empire to reinstate the republic.

    Another thing to take into account. If he saves Padme, then the kids would still be born and Anakin would have two apprentices. They could either be raised and taught the ways of the Sith and help Vader take over the Empire and rule it with an iron fist, or they could be raised in the way of the Jedi if Anakin chooses that path and the kids could help him reinstate the republic. I'm sure that if Anakin learned from his mistakes, Yoda would forgive Anakin, but on the other hand, maybe not. If Yoda did decide eventually that Anakin was forgivable, he could end up joining the Skywalkers there would be four jedi. I'm sure that together, they could destroy the Empire with the help of a Rebel Alliance started by Anakin and Yoda.
  12. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Interesting point, well said.
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