A discussion of the artisitic validity of Lucas' vision: The controversy of a galaxy, far, far, away

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by 1BAT4U, May 12, 2003.

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  1. chongnam Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2003
    star 1
    Wow, you guys have sure bested me! All this intellectual stuff is really going over my head. I wish I was a clever American too! We all now how smart they are!
  2. 1BAT4U Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 1
    Oh great. Now this thread is a forum for anti-American sentiment just because someone tries to discuss something controversial in a logical manner.

    Look, I don't care where you're from or what your problem is, but I take it personally when anyone makes some snide attack on American citizens just because it's a popular thing to do in the global culture. That's just as jingoist as me saying that all Asians are unsanitary or all Arabs own camels. So please end your unneccessary comments.

    I can personally attest from living in England, France, Germany, Austria, Belgium, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Mexico, and other South American states that almost everywhere that isn't America is a cesspool and inhabitable except to those who are too ignorant to move away. The very idea that America even exists is a testament to that fact. Our ancestors would not have come to this country unless their motherland was not worth living in, and America is responsible for the wellbeing of almost every nation on the planet.

    So if you want to talk about how stupid Americans are, just remember who is responsible for everything worth having.



    Let's drop this issue.
  3. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    Durwood

    The " :confused: " wasn't the correct response.


    This was:

    "That is why you fail."


  4. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    1BAT4U -

    I agree, I don't like seeing anti- American remarks. But I must ask you to clarify something , you said:

    "...almost everywhere that isn't America is a cesspool.."

    er...is that what you meant to say?

    g
  5. 1BAT4U Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 1
    Maybe I needed a comma after "South American states," but, yeah.


    After spending time in places like Hungary, South America, and France, you see how grateful you should be for living in such a wonderful place like the USA. It ain't perfect, but there ain't nowhere better (although if the UK could drop it's prices on everything from hamburgers to gasoline, it'd be running a close second).



    But let's try to keep the focus on the topic at hand, shall we?







    P.S. Australia is pretty cool, too.
  6. chongnam Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2003
    star 1
    Look, i'm sorry about the anti-American comments. I don'twish to make any generalisations about your country, and it WAS very hypocritical of me, sinse I so happily absorb so much of your film culture.

    My comment wasn't about this post. It was about the responses I got when, for fun, I made that post about Taxi Driver. A few of the people who posted afterwards were unaware i was just amusing myself with a silly joke, and made unfriendly responses. Because Americans are famous for their inability to detect sarcasm or irony, I assumed these posters were American - hence the Anti-American statements. I've met American's in my country (New Zealand) who seem to believe that any silly or sarcastic comment we make for a joke has been uttered in complete seriousness. It makes you guys seem more than a little stupid. Other New Zealanders have commented on the same phenomenon.

    Again, i am sorry about those comments.
  7. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>So if you want to talk about how stupid Americans are, just remember who is responsible for everything worth having.

    [face_laugh]
  8. chongnam Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2003
    star 1
    In the interest of politeness and tact, i decided to comment on his first few sentenses and pretend the rest never happened.
  9. 1BAT4U Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 1
    To chongnam;

    Thanks for the apology. While I would agree that the American sense of humor is less attuned to sarcasm (we tend to view sarcasm as personal attacks rather than something funny), Amercians as a group are a little sensitive as of late regarding anything with Anti-American sentiment. I'm sure you can understand. It's odd and confusing to us how a large sector of the world can act so unfavorably toward the US regarding foreign policy action that over 70% of our citizens approve of. We feel kinda unjustifiably ganged up on, while at the same time we feel such a strong feeling of superiority. It is indeed a wierd time to be an American.



    And by the way, New Zealand and all you Kiwis are OK in my book, too. NZ is like Australia, but pretty. Just be careful of your choice of words. We Americans aren't "clever" enough to figure out when you witty foriegners are just having a jab all in good fun.










    And let's now talk about Star Wars.
  10. chongnam Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2003
    star 1
    So if 70 percent of Iraqis decide that the American people would benefit from having the Democrats in office, does that mean YOU have to change? Does it work the other way around?

    PS: Good work with that last sentence! You're catching on!
  11. 1BAT4U Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 1
    I didn't say that our policies were right or wrong, I just said they were popular, and lends a certain feel of confusion to us Americans. Our nation feels that if we agree on it, why can't the rest of the world? See where I'm coming from?


    Anyway, I can see the global standpoint, too. If 70% of Americans were in favor of invading Jamaica, and our government was willing, we'd probably have that sunny island destroyed before dinner. But Jamaica (or many European/West Asian countries, for that matter) is not controlled by a fascist totalitarian regime that is in the habit of the mass-murdering of their own citizens. Americans, as a group, have always felt that non-religious democratic authority is the only for a government to be run, and since we have large supplies of money and troops and other materiels of war, we usually have only a limited reluctance in imposing our doctrine on other, less-equipped states. But I guess that would include everyone else, wouldn't it?
  12. J-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 4
    Apology my ***.

    Well, it's just the fact that I don't want to be banned that is holding me to say something appropriate to 1BAT4U. "America" is an maintained by the blood and the lives of many "cesspolls" around the globe.

    Cesspolls like the milenar Italy, and the capital of the world, Rome? Like Portugal and Spain, who really discovered America? Like Mexico, from whom you stole more than half their country? Like Japan, with thousands and thousands years of culture and history behind it?

    As for South America, if it wasn't for the continuous American interference chosing dictators and killing thousands of people all the time, we'd be even better than we already are. Brasil has satelite launching capapility and the richest natural environment on the planet. Brasilia was voted the world's better looking capital in the world. Argentina has a rich culture and music, and Buenos Aires is like any European capital. Unfortunately, to supply drugs for american clients, some countries like Colombia live in constant civil war with drug dealers.

    You're just another arrogant guy who thinks you can do and say anything just because you can kill everybody on the planet if you wanted to.

    So it's not because this is an american forum (is it, really? Don't think so), that the rest of the world has to hear ignorant things like that. I demand an apology.

    ps: ban me if you like. I just think that we have the right to defend ourselves from such ignorance. I really like it here and would like to keep coming back, but if not, that's life. The USA is a great country too, by the way. But needs to learn some humility badly.
  13. urgent_jedi_picnic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2003
    star 4
    uhhhhh......... so why do you like SW again? I don't think I could put this thread back on track if I tried.

    The Picnic :eek: (one sarcastic, humble American ;) )
  14. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    I think you guys should drop it before you get this thread locked and yourselves banned. :eek:
  15. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    America has its problems, but it's a great country.

    Um, now what are we actually supposed to discuss in this thread? I've forgotten.
  16. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    I didn't quite understand it from the start...

    But I will say this, which might be on the original topic;

    To me, Star Wars has more going on in each and every scene than any other film I know if- certainly any other blockbuster in it's league, and moreso with the prequels than the original trilogy. And that's a big part of why it stands up to repeat viewings so well (IMHO). There is a relevance to every casmera angle, every wipe, every fade, every sweep of a lightsaber and every line of dialogue.

    Lucas obviously has this "vision" of a 12 part saga, which he is trying to make a reality.

    Now, if I had a picture in my head that was *my* picture, and I was going to try and make it a reality, then I would have to draw it myself. Despite the fact that I'm a poor drawer and I'm colourblind, I'm convinced that would be the best way to make *my* picture.

    If I were to try to describe it to a better artist and to ask them to draw it for me, the it simply wouldn't be *my* picture. If a picture paints a thousand words, then they wouldn't all be my words.

    For Lucas to try to give the job of commiting an episode of his vision to celluloid/silicone to someone else, then in exactly the same way, the end result wouldn't be his film. (And at a thousand words a frame at twenty two frames a second, the average Star Wars film consists of one hundred and seventy two million words!) I can't even imagine trying to explain everything that I see in TPM & AOTC to someone else, and that's without the real-world worries of making a film, keeping the cast happy, keeping the crew informed as to what you want out of them, dealing with crews, storms, contractors etc. etc. etc. to get in the way.
  17. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
  18. FETT_was_not_a_clone Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2003
    Lucas's vision is Lucas's vision. No one can question the validity of his vision, because we can't see it. What we're seeing is the end result of Lucas taking his vision, forcing it to become a maleable substance, and hammering it out into something the he feels comfortable with. Whether or not we like the end result is of little concern to him. Does he have sleepless nights thinking about how he could have made stuff better? Hopefully.

    There's a lot of bitterness going down in this forum about what makes these movies "good" or not. We all have our opinion, and learned scholars can say what they like, but there's really two kinds of success for a film, critical and commercial. Sometimes critical expectations grow so monstrous, that you realize that all the critics won't be pleased, thus leading you to go for a commercial success.

    This is what I think Lucas did. And he did it well. He knew that there were millions of people out there that would be disappointed with the prequels no matter WHAT he did with them. I think he just decided to go for something that would satisfy him and still make money. It saddens me to think that Lucas would resort to this, but I think it's true. He knew that everyone and their uncle would go and see it once, and those people he managed to hook would come back, and they did.

    Lucas essentially killed the era of character-driven films when he made Star Wars: A New Hope. After this milestone, people wanted to see action in their movies, something Lucas could provide. He made his film visually pleasing while at the same time sneaking in some underlying mythological stuff that some people would appreciate as they grew as people and movie-goers.

    Nowadays, it does seem like he pulled away from those minute extras he chucked in with Star Wars. I admit, I'm not fond of the prequels, but I have two reasons- first I enjoy the expanded universe, and since Lucas is able to do what he wants, he didn't adapt his vision to the works of others that came later, disappointing me. So really, on that level, the blame is on me for not letting his vision remain his own. Secondly, I'm not fond of the digital crap.

    To be brutally honest, I am opposed to George Lucas's "Digital Revolution". Here's why: If we've been having so many advancements in CGI technology, then why have movies using these effects grown more and more visually appauling as time progressed? I thought that some parts of PM looked bad (i.e. the entire Gungan race and some of the backgrounds), but I was even more dismayed by the CGI overkill in AOTC. So much of that movie looked fake it was hard to really get past for me. Seriously, the weather channel looks better than many of the scenes in AOTC. The story itself is a great one, with lots of potential that just wasn't met.

    I won't get into th acting, because I have a million and one angles on all of it. I've tried to take everything in this forum in stride, and hopefully you'll all do that with me. Forgive me for rambling, because I probably am. This is an issue that will undoubtedly be hotly debated for 1000 generations to come. May the Force keep us from turning this war of words into a war of actions.

    "Remember, the Force will be with you. Always."
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