A Fateful Bond: The Anakin/Obi-Wan Brotherhood Fan Thread V 2.0

I think this would be even a worse turn out for Anakin, definitely under Mace. The philosiphy that i believe in is that the tougher the Master, the more defiant Anakin would be. Maybe or maybe not... we'll never know.

That's my sense as well, but I'm not sure that a master who was harder on him couldn't force him drop his immaturity. Mace would be a mistake I agree, but only because of Anakin's resentment of Mace. I think Yoda could have probably kept Anakin from going Dark, assuming he could get Anakin to actually listen to his wisdom and not just ignore it because it wasn't what he wanted to hear as he does in RotS.

I watched AOTC again yesterday, and i paid more attention to it than normal... Another thing that caught my eye was when Padme just right out and told the Governor of Naboo that "Anakin's not a Master, he's just a Padawan learner" even though she heard Anakin ramble on in her apartment how he thought Obi-wan was holding him back and all that jazz (don't wanna go into that emo teenager issues) I thought she would be more careful around Anakin if she knew almost anything could set him off, but on the otherhand maybe she was trying to help him get over that phase of his life and work towards making his personality better. Then maybe the Council would grant him the title of Jedi Knight.

I hadn't ever thought of it as Padme trying to force Anakin to grow up, but I'm still not sure I think that's the case. It could be I suppose as that's before she's admitted her feelings to him. I'm still not sure what I think about Padme as a character though. I mean, I like her in Episode 1 but once Anakin enters her life I think it harms her significantly, especially how she in my mind at least really serves as an accidental enabler for his darker side in that she simply reassures him when even Anakin himself knows that as a Jedi he should be able to control his anger better.

 

I agree with you and Deb, I think Obi-Wan was aware of his faults but chose to not report them to the Council because of his friendship with Anakin and he had faith his friend would eventually work through them.

Just piping in with an opinion but?I think that any of these ?faults? weren?t really something Obi-Wan could repost to the council. After all guiding a padawan is the job of the master not the council. The master would only report serious rule breaking that would need to involve the council (like a marriage) but then Obi-Wan had no proof of that did he.

Yeah, but i mean come on. Even if Obi-wan had any hard evidence, I believe that he would've talked to Anakin before any other rash decisions. If he cared about Anakin even a little bit, he wouldn't hurt Anakin by destroying his chances of being a Jedi. Being married to Padme would totally kick him out of the Order.

He may have cared for Anakin but I think he put the Jedi and the Code above Anakin. Any affection he felt for the boy he buried deep enough for it to not influence his duty.

Alley, you really don't have a high opinion of Obi, do you? (or am I wrong?)

I?m not gonna lie to you. No, I don?t have a very high opinion of Obi-Wan.

help him get over that phase of his life and work towards making his personality better.

I don?t see anything wrong with his personally (At least not in the way you're implying). Sorry, Rach,

And on the note, since Rachel brought it up?IDK call me stupid or something but I don?t see how Anakin ?whines? so much, especially in AOTC. Ok, I have a six year old brother I know a whine when I hear one. All I hear with Anakin is that he is FRUSTERSTED and he?s venting if anything, confiding in a friend about his problems. Or do you mean to say that you?ve NEVER confided in a friend about a problem? Never vented? Never declared that something was not fare when you thought it wasn?t? I honestly don?t see why its SO wrong for a person to express their frustration!

*Sight* Sorry, rant over.

 

Just piping in with an opinion but?I think that any of these ?faults? weren?t really something Obi-Wan could repost to the council. After all guiding a padawan is the job of the master not the council. The master would only report serious rule breaking that would need to involve the council (like a marriage) but then Obi-Wan had no proof of that did he.

True enough, but given that he told Yoda and Mace he thought Anakin shouldn't go on the mission to protect Padme alone because he was arrogant I think at least with those two Obi-Wan could have gone to them for advice on what they felt he should do to help Anakin overcome specific issues.

 

I don't think it's wrong to be frustrated, but I think the scene was included in the AotC to show a character trait.

How and what is the appropriate way to deal with frustration? I don't know - good to think on.

 

And on the note, since Rachel brought it up?IDK call me stupid or something but I don?t see how Anakin ?whines? so much, especially in AOTC. Ok, I have a six year old brother I know a whine when I hear one. All I hear with Anakin is that he is FRUSTERSTED and he?s venting if anything, confiding in a friend about his problems. Or do you mean to say that you?ve NEVER confided in a friend about a problem? Never vented? Never declared that something was not fare when you thought it wasn?t? I honestly don?t see why its SO wrong for a person to express their frustration!

"He's overly critical! He never listens! He just doesn't understand! It's not fair!"

"It's all Obi-Wan's fault! He's jealous! He's holding me back!"

"What? How can you do this? This is outrageous, it's unfair. I'm more powerful than any of you. How can you be on the council and not be a master?" (RotS novel version admittedly, but only one part is different.)

I think Padme says it fairly well in the Episode 2 novel

"You sounded exactly like that little boy I once knew, when he didn't get his way."

I've got no problem that he complains but he complains about some of the tiniest little slights imaginable and some that aren't even true. Obi-Wan for instance isn't overly critical, he simply understands the significance of every choice you make for one who can use the Force. His complaints that the Council won't make him a master again seem childlike and immature to me because he could focus on the honor of being the youngest person to ever sit on the Council but instead he stands there and has a hissyfit about not being a master.

 

Thank you Ice for posting the pic

But I do think Obi-Wan looked the other way sometimes hoping things would turn out okay and work themselves out i.e. Anakin would "grow out" of it. In that way he may have been "blind".

This is what I think Deb. But I agree with the rest of your statement as well. He does know Anakin's many faults, but the "blind" part is simply that maybe sometimes (especially during RotS) he chooses to not speak up as much as he maybe once would have, or that maybe he senses a growing darkness within Anakin, and simply hopes that it will go away with time. I can't seem to word it the way I want to.

I'd add that I think Obi-Wan knew the truth about Padme and Anakin but didn't say anything because he saw how happy she made Anakin and probably thought that she might be a good influence on him.

Oh the irony here. LOL. Not that under normal circumstances she wouldn't have been, but Anakin was too emotionally damaged to be in that kind of relationship and be a Jedi, IMO. He should have chose one over the other.

I think this would be even a worse turn out for Anakin, definitely under Mace. The philosiphy that i believe in is that the tougher the Master, the more defiant Anakin would be. Maybe or maybe not... we'll never know.

I see what you mean - like the harsher someone is to a child or person about a certain lifestyle, the more that person or child will rebel. I've heard of people being brought up in really strict religious homes, and they end up being strippers Who knows, maybe Anakin would have turned to the dark side on his own without Palpatine's pushing through this method.

Still, it would have been interesting to see Mace and Anakin, or even Mace and Yoda. LOL

I watched AOTC again yesterday, and i paid more attention to it than normal... Another thing that caught my eye was when Padme just right out and told the Governor of Naboo that "Anakin's not a Master, he's just a Padawan learner" even though she heard Anakin ramble on in her apartment how he thought Obi-wan was holding him back and all that jazz (don't wanna go into that emo teenager issues) I thought she would be more careful around Anakin if she knew almost anything could set him off, but on the otherhand maybe she was trying to help him get over that phase of his life and work towards making his personality better. Then maybe the Council would grant him the title of Jedi Knight.

I'm glad you can watch this scene, because I can't. It's so embarrassing. LOL I hate when I have to feel embarrassment for a character. I have a hard time in general watching a few Anakin scenes in AotC because of this. Perhaps Padme just thought he was ranting that one time (teenage thing), and he wouldn't be so crass as to call her out for saying that in front of political officials. I don't know. It was bad on both of their parts, but more on Anakin's because really, Padme was only telling the truth, and she handled like an adult. Anakin's ego just got the better of him when he should have remained quiet.

Just piping in with an opinion but?I think that any of these ?faults? weren?t really something Obi-Wan could repost to the council. After all guiding a padawan is the job of the master not the council.

True, I think a lot of Anakin's faults were subtle things. Things he didn't even understand about himself. But it's obvious that the council does think something is off about Anakin - especially in RotS. For all intents and purposes, they do not trust him. Obi-Wan in the only one on the councl that does.

He may have cared for Anakin but I think he put the Jedi and the Code above Anakin. Any affection he felt for the boy he buried deep enough for it to not influence his duty.

As far as putting the Council above Anakin, it really depends on how you look at it. We have to consider that Obi-Wan was raised this way his entire life. Jedi are really emotiona

 

True enough, but given that he told Yoda and Mace he thought Anakin shouldn't go on the mission to protect Padme alone because he was arrogant I think at least with those two Obi-Wan could have gone to them for advice on what they felt he should do to help Anakin overcome specific issues.

And goiing by what we were shown in AOTC and ROTS I'm sure he did.

"You sounded exactly like that little boy I once knew, when he didn't get his way."

I think that?s an EU qote.

I've got no problem that he complains but he complains about some of the tiniest little slights imaginable

According to your quotes I wouldn?t call the things he complains over tiny.

Obi-Wan for instance isn't overly critical, he simply understands the significance of every choice you make for one who can use the Force.

But Anakin may think Obi-Wan is overly critical. I, though, would have useded the word ?harsh? instead.

His complaints that the Council won't make him a master again seem childlike and immature to me because he could focus on the honor of being the youngest person to ever sit on the Council but instead he stands there and has a hissyfit about not being a master.

Maybe he doesn?t know he?s the youngest person to ever be put on the couincil? *shrug&

 

"You sounded exactly like that little boy I once knew, when he didn't get his way."

Funny though - did Anakin ever really complain in episode 1?


His complaints that the Council won't make him a master again seem childlike and immature to me because he could focus on the honor of being the youngest person to ever sit on the Council but instead he stands there and has a hissyfit about not being a master.

Anakin often focuses on the negative. Obi-Wan: You're focusing on the negative Anakin...."

I forget the rest, but yes, he often looks at what he doesn't accomplish, because "it's" not enough, and he wants to be all powerful. No matter how much he has, there can still be more.

According to your quotes I wouldn?t call the things he complains over tiny.

In the grand scheme of things, and to the Jedi way of life they are. An apprentice should not be concerned with being more powerful than his Master. I don't even think he should be bad mouthing him to a third party. If Anakin really feels that strongly about his Obi-Wan issues, he should have told the council IMO. Like if a teacher is slighting me in school and I feel strongly about it, do I complain to a close friend and do nothing about it, or do I go to an administrator?

 

I put that I am Icestar in my signature for just in case if there was someone who has not recognized me.

The reason I have a new username is because I don't know the password for my Icestar username and my email was erased from my Icestar profile so I could not check what my password was so I had to make a new username.

I made a new user name called Legendary-Jedi-25 but I wanted a diffrent username so I made this user name and I will only keep this user name.

Your welcome!

 

In RotS it bothers him a great deal that Anakin is put into a bad position by the Council and Palpatine.

Sorry, Dee, but I don?t see it bothering him ?a great deal.? And if it does, I think some of those reasons are diff from what you think they are.

He loved Anakin, but at the end of the day he was a Jedi, and he was going to do what was right. Anything less would be against his character. That's how I view the duel.

Ether way he still puts the council over Ani doesn?t he.

Like if a teacher is slighting me in school and I feel strongly about it, do I complain to a close friend and do nothing about it, or do I go to an administrator?

You?d probably choose the friend if you new the admins would be on the teacher?s side.

There?s more to this too but I won?t go into it now?

 

Well, as in all cases something has to come first. Is it so bad that Obi puts the Jedi ideals above an individual? Especially when you are raised that way and it's all you ever knew? You have to make a choice. To me, Anakin had a choice - follow the Jedi way or not be a Jedi. This may seem simplistic, but I guess that gets to the heart of the matter. Not everyone's idea of what's important is the same.

 

Oh the irony here. LOL. Not that under normal circumstances she wouldn't have been, but Anakin was too emotionally damaged to be in that kind of relationship and be a Jedi, IMO. He should have chose one over the other.

Agreed, I think Anakin should have probably left the Jedi Order and gone to Naboo with Padme. I think he was cut out more for a life where he has a family and raises a child more than a life of selfless and thankless but noble servitude.

I see what you mean - like the harsher someone is to a child or person about a certain lifestyle, the more that person or child will rebel. I've heard of people being brought up in really strict religious homes, and they end up being strippers

Who knows, maybe Anakin would have turned to the dark side on his own without Palpatine's pushing through this method.

The only reason I could see Mace being a good master for Anakin is that he knows the Dark Side far better than Obi-Wan or Yoda given that his combat style draws upon his own inner darkness. Mace is simply able to control it.

He loved Anakin, but at the end of the day he was a Jedi, and he was going to do what was right. Anything less would be against his character. That's how I view the duel.

Same.

If Anakin was really a cut and dry hero with no flaws, he would be boring. A lot of his faults, especially some of the ones that go against the Order, tend to make him endearing to others.

Definitely. He also needed to be flawed given what he becomes.

And goiing by what we were shown in AOTC and ROTS I'm sure he did.

As am I. I think his friendship/attatchment to Anakin stopped him from going to them with his suspicions about Anakin and Padme though.

According to your quotes I wouldn?t call the things he complains over tiny.

I'd say they are for a Jedi.

I think that?s an EU qote.

It is, as I said in my post it's from AotC novelization.

But Anakin may think Obi-Wan is overly critical. I, though, would have useded the word ?harsh? instead.

He does think he is, but complaining about a teacher being overly critical and never going to the person about it is in my mind little more than a whine.

Maybe he doesn?t know he?s the youngest person to ever be put on the couincil? *shrug&

Possibly, but when Obi-Wan tells him later Anakin doesn't seem to be any less angry about it.

Funny though - did Anakin ever really complain in episode 1?

The main thing that comes to mind is when he's leaving his mother but that's A: completely normal and B: something Padme never saw.

Sorry, Dee, but I don?t see it bothering him ?a great deal.? And if it does, I think some of those reasons are diff from what you think they are.

To be fair, Obi-Wan wouldn't show it much if it was bothering him. He mentions that it does when he says "Anakin, I am on your side. I didn't want to see you put in this situation."

Ether way he still puts the council over Ani doesn?t he.

Well yeah, Obi-Wan's a Jedi. The good of the galaxy and of the Jedi Order are far more important than any personal concerns.

 

I think he was cut out more for a life where he has a family and raises a child more than a life of selfless and thankless but noble servitude.

If I may cut in, I agree. Though I must add (for possible need of clarification) that the issue wasn?t in Anakin inability to be selfless or noble, but rather that sometimes he was TOO selfless, in the sense of being overly loyal and devoted to ppl close to him. (I have a feeling Forrest?s gonna disagree? )

The only reason I could see Mace being a good master for Anakin is that he knows the Dark Side far better than Obi-Wan or Yoda given that his combat style draws upon his own inner darkness. Mace is simply able to control it.

Not a direct reply to Forrest here, but simply to comment on the ?Mace as Anakin?s master? topic. I don?t think that a harsher master would have been better for Anakin. And, honestly, Mace (or someone like him) may have been detrimental to Anakin?s psychology. Obi-Wan was harsh enough, anyone worse (IMO, of course) would have been traumatic. (Especially talking in Anakin?s young age and how impressionable children are at that age combined with the Jedi?s attitude toward children ? and I understand this is for the most part of speculative nature, but it the impression I get ? as miniature adults.)

As am I. I think his friendship/attatchment to Anakin stopped him from going to them with his suspicions about Anakin and Padme though.

Well he may have. But I think it was merely presented as a friend-to-friend concern about something that can be possibly happening. Really, without Obi-Wan presenting it as an issue formally before the council Anakin would not going to get in trouble. And with Obi-Wan only having suspicions and highly circumstantial evidence there was no way for Mace to make Obi-Wan make it a council issue. So, I think Obi-Wan may have gone to them about it but if he didn?t, I suppose it would merely be b/c he didn?t see a resolution to the problem.
Remember how Jedi don?t dwell on ?what if?s? So, if Anakin?s ?anger issues? or his relationship with Palps was something concrete, the relationship with Padme was only a suspicion. And suspicions fall into the category of ?what if?s. So, he the problem would probably be deemed not worthy of too much thought.

IDK, am I making any sense here?

He does think he is, but complaining about a teacher being overly critical and never going to the person about it is in my mind little more than a whine.

We don?t know if Anakin every tried to talk about the issue to Obi-Wan, but ether way I don?t think it would have done any much good. I mean really what could Anakin say? Do you really think it would change anything.

Possibly, but when Obi-Wan tells him later Anakin doesn't seem to be any less angry about it.

He?s already rather wound up and I don?t think, from what I remember, he really pushes the issue after Obi-Wan?s comment.

To be fair, Obi-Wan wouldn't show it much if it was bothering him.

So we have no way of knowing, then, do we.

He mentions that it does when he says "Anakin, I am on your side. I didn't want to see you put in this situation."

The quote is (sorry, I?m not trying to be picky but I have a point here) ?I didn?t want to put you in this situation.? And of course he didn?t! Because that makes him the middleman. It?s not fun being the middleman. Ever been in a situation where two of your nest friends are fighting? It?s not fun.
I think we talked about this in the first chap discussion. Do you remember what I said about Obi-Wan being ?The Negotiator? AKA good w/ words and him choosing his words carefully? Hmm?maybe I?ll go back and look for it.

Well yeah, Obi-Wan's a Jedi. The good of the galaxy and of the Jedi Order are far more important than any personal concerns.

Well you know my opinion on this but I won?t say anything seeing as in this particular conv

 

Not a direct reply to Forrest here, but simply to comment on the ?Mace as Anakin?s master? topic. I don?t think that a harsher master would have been better for Anakin. And, honestly, Mace (or someone like him) may have been detrimental to Anakin?s psychology. Obi-Wan was harsh enough, anyone worse (IMO, of course) would have been traumatic. (Especially talking in Anakin?s young age and how impressionable children are at that age combined with the Jedi?s attitude toward children ? and I understand this is for the most part of speculative nature, but it the impression I get ? as miniature adults.)

Well I think I agree that Mace being Anakin's master at a young age might have really done him in. I'm sure he was already feeling out of place and uncomfortable, and it's pretty much speculated on that he believed Obi-Wan didn't even like him much in the beginning. I can only imagine what he might have thought about Mace's feelings toward him

I have to say, i don't think there was any one right master for Anakin at this point. I'm of the belief that this was a bad idea simply because of his age. If they had waited until he was Luke's age, and he could safely let go of his mother and his attachments, things might have turned out a lot differently. He had Palpatine and Obi-Wan telling him two different ideals at a very critical point in his life - not good.


[image=http://desiringhayden.net/images/albums/rots/dvdcaptures/delscene1/deletedscenes193.jpg]

Hee hee, thought I would post this scene. Why didn't they leave it in? I could have watched these two and their antics for 3 hrs straight - forget the rest of the movie.

[image=http://desiringhayden.net/images/albums/rots/dvdcaptures/delscene1/deletedscenes195.jpg]

[image=http://desiringhayden.net/images/albums/rots/dvdcaptures/delscene1/deletedscenes196.jpg]

[image=http://desiringhayden.net/images/albums/rots/dvdcaptures/delscene1/deletedscenes203.jpg]

 

I have to say, i don't think there was any one right master for Anakin at this point. I'm of the belief that this was a bad idea simply because of his age. If they had waited until he was Luke's age, and he could safely let go of his mother and his attachments, things might have turned out a lot differently. He had Palpatine and Obi-Wan telling him two different ideals at a very critical point in his life - not good.

I still hold to the opinion that there was a right master for Anakin. Sadly, he died in TPM at the hands of a Sith.
I don?t see how waiting ?till Anakin was an adult would have helped. B/c Anakin would just have TOO much catching up to do by this point. It must have difficult as it was. Plus, I think Luke inherited a lot of his mother?s more righteous nature.

And really (I know Forrest is gonna bristle) I doubt the realism of the OT as concerning Luke?s training. That?s why I dislike the Beyond Saga EU and all the NJO stuff?I just can?t believe in it. I mean, I just can?t believe that it took Luke only a few months at the max (no matter how talented he is) to learn what other padawan?s of the OJO took years to learn.


Hee hee, thought I would post this scene. Why didn't they leave it in? I could have watched these two and their antics for 3 hrs straight - forget the rest of the movie.

lol! I love that scene too! And look! Ob0Wan even admits to being wrong about something
I really wish we could have a movie just about them *fangirl giggle*
IMO they have some of the best scenes in the movies. Much better than the sappy A/P ones. (I like mush, just not A/P mush...)

 

Nice pictures iLoveAnakin7

 

Alley, I used to be just like you. Right at the beginning when I got into Star Wars, I stood up for Anakin in almost every scene. Especially when people always said he was an emo kid who whined too much about his issues. But then, once I actually watched the movies, and dissected every part of every scene, I realized that he whined a lot, and I mean a lot. But I guess you have ur own opinion. lol.

With the whining issue about Anakin in AOTC, there are two way to look at it. One side is that he is a JEDI and shouldn't let little things frustrate him so much. The other side is that he is the Chosen One and maybe should be an exception. Anakin may have been too complex for anyone to handle but himself. But he was corrupted during his developing year by Palpatine so everything could've been different if he wasn't so close to him.

Alley, considering how you feel about Obi-wan, I just don't understand how you can have such a low opinion of him. Obi-wan took Anakin on as a Padawan and pushed this agenda onto the Council even though they felt he was too old and dangerous. Yes, Qui-gon, asked Obi to promise that he would, but he could've just forgot about Anakin. Obi-wan most likely had the toughest apprentice in the history of the Jedi, not because that Anakin didn't have powerful force sensitivity, but that Anakin had learned so much of life already and considered some of the Jedi Order lifestyle bogus. Anakin was just really rebellious. Obi-wan could've just given up on him, but he didn't. Because he loved him dearly as a brother, Obi-wan desperately tried to lead him away from the way of the Sith. With Palpatine in the midst, Obi had an even harder trial before him. He taught Anakin everything he knew and hoped that would've been enough, but sadly, it wasn't enough for the Chosen One.

Just thought I would put this in. In ROTS, during the scene when Ani/Obi are trying to get Grievous, a droid was running past R2 so he put one of his legs out and tripped him! lol... i couldn't stop laughing...

Rachel Rose

 

Can that only be seen in the widescreen version? I have the full screen version of the movies in star wars, I want to sell them and get them in widescreen when the Blu-ray and HD-DVD format war is over.



I am going to say my opinion on this subject.

Jedi are supposed to be trained at an early age. The reason for this is because they develop attachments, and these attchments are very dangerous. I lot of jedi may get these feelings but they eventually control them because they had not grown a deep attachment scince they were trained at an early age. When Anakin was found by Qui-gon he had a deep attachment to his mom so he was already to old to be trained and I think these attachments to his mom helped him develop one for Padme.

I agree with iLoveAnakin7 because Anakin had a deep attachment to his mom and padme already so it was already to dangerous e to train him at the age of 9. Weather Qui-gon or Obi-wan trained him he still had attachments to Shmi and Padme. Obi-wan knew he had feelings for Padme but he did not want to tell the other jedi about it because he was his friend and brother and he loved him.
I think weather if Qui-gon or Obi-wan or Mace trained Anakin he was still dangerouse to be trained at his age. The reason Anakin turned to the dark side was because he wanted to save Padme from dying. I think if Anakin waited to be trained at Luke's age he would probally lost his deep attachments.


I like all my favorite characters equally but I think each character has there faults.
I think Obi-wan could have helped Anakin a little more then he did and I think Anakin should have tried a little hard to lose the attachments. When Anakin first became a Jedi he made a commitment to the order and one of those commitments were to not develop those attachments. No one was perfect.


This is all my opinion.

 

If I may cut in, I agree. Though I must add (for possible need of clarification) that the issue wasn?t in Anakin inability to be selfless or noble, but rather that sometimes he was TOO selfless, in the sense of being overly loyal and devoted to ppl close to him. (I have a feeling Forrest?s gonna disagree?

Am I that predictable? Yeah, I do disagree.

Not a direct reply to Forrest here, but simply to comment on the ?Mace as Anakin?s master? topic. I don?t think that a harsher master would have been better for Anakin. And, honestly, Mace (or someone like him) may have been detrimental to Anakin?s psychology. Obi-Wan was harsh enough, anyone worse (IMO, of course) would have been traumatic. (Especially talking in Anakin?s young age and how impressionable children are at that age combined with the Jedi?s attitude toward children ? and I understand this is for the most part of speculative nature, but it the impression I get ? as miniature adults.)

Oh it probably would have been. I think a less harsh version of Mace would've been interesting though as while I don't think Anakin could have handled Vapaad, from what the Jedi knew I'm surprised the EU never had them try to teach it to him as a way to control his inner demons.


Well he may have. But I think it was merely presented as a friend-to-friend concern about something that can be possibly happening. Really, without Obi-Wan presenting it as an issue formally before the council Anakin would not going to get in trouble. And with Obi-Wan only having suspicions and highly circumstantial evidence there was no way for Mace to make Obi-Wan make it a council issue. So, I think Obi-Wan may have gone to them about it but if he didn?t, I suppose it would merely be b/c he didn?t see a resolution to the problem.

I suppose that could be the case. However, given that the entire Temple knows Anakin spends his nights

Remember how Jedi don?t dwell on ?what if?s? So, if Anakin?s ?anger issues? or his relationship with Palps was something concrete, the relationship with Padme was only a suspicion. And suspicions fall into the category of ?what if?s. So, he the problem would probably be deemed not worthy of too much thought.

IDK, am I making any sense here?

I think so, but the fact that Anakin and Padme hugged after the duel and that Anakin spends many of his nights with Padme(admittedly they only know for sure in the EU, but the Chosen One leaving the Temple is something I wouldn't be surprised that they were aware of) would at least be viewed as evidence that it's a reasonable thought, it wouldn't be enough for the Council to investigate given that it was the middle of the Clone Wars and they had far bigger issues to concern themselves with.

We don?t know if Anakin every tried to talk about the issue to Obi-Wan, but ether way I don?t think it would have done any much good. I mean really what could Anakin say? Do you really think it would change anything.

He may have tried to be less blunt with his criticisms of Anakin. I don't know that it would have actually done anything, but he would have at least have been trying to fix the situation rather than only complaining about it.

He?s already rather wound up and I don?t think, from what I remember, he really pushes the issue after Obi-Wan?s comment.

He was and he does, but he never seems to even really acknowledge that it really is a great honor. Most Jedi never get to sit on the Council in their entire lives let alone when they're so young.

So we have no way of knowing, then, do we.

Not the full extent of how much it's bothering him other than possibly the novel but I don't think anything is in there about it.

The quote is (sorry, I?m not trying to be picky but I have a point here) ?I didn?t want to put you in this situation.? And of course he didn?t! Because that makes him the middleman. It?s

 

I agree

 

You know, you guys made me think of something... ultimately, Anakin and Obi-Wan's monikers are actually quite *bad* descriptors for them in ep. 3. We see Obi-Wan 'doing what he must' instead of negotiating (unless we're talking 'agressive negotiations' ), and the brief words he speaks with Sith-Anakin just make him angrier. Anakin, on the other hand, is so afraid that he lets it push him to the Dark Side. Hmmm... could this be intentional irony or am I reading too much into it?

 

I think Anakin's moniker is intentional irony as well as showing just how good Anakin is at hiding his fear when he feels it's necessary. Obi-Wan being the Negotiator I think definitely includes "aggressive negotiations" but also his ability to talk his way out of situations and that during the Clone Wars some fleets surrendered before a shot was fired when they learned he was the enemy commander.

 

Holy ****, really Forrest? I REALLY have to read some of this EU stuff. Then I think I'm gonna REALLY love Obi-Wan....

 

I'm not sure when that happened admittedly, but one of the mods who tends to not twist facts mentioned it and so it's probably in one of the comics. It may just be from sources saying why he was called the Negotiator as he had a reputation of ending battles before a single shot was fired.

If you do read the EU I'd suggest reading the Clone Wars stuff first for sure because it feels more like the movies than a lot of the stuff set after Jedi does(though some pieces like I,Jedi still feel like they could happen in the galaxy of the films.) They mention "The Kenobi Offensive" which was a starship maneuver he developed in the Clone Wars that was studied by both Rebel and Imperial tacticians, so it's certainly plausible given what the EU has added to him.

 

But then, once I actually watched the movies, and dissected every part of every scene,

Believe me, Rach. I?ve done that. There are very few things that I don?t have an explanation for (Probably none in the PT). I had a hard time with the ?You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you!? line for the longest time. But even that I?ve managed to work in to my ?theory.?

Alley, considering how you feel about Obi-wan, I just don't understand how you can have such a low opinion of him.

Well I don?t understand how people have such a high opinion of him. *shrug* People are different and they see things differently, I guess.

Because he loved him dearly as a brother,

Where have I ever denied that Obi-Wan had come to love or at least care about Anakin?

I like all my favorite characters equally but I think each character has there faults.

Oh, that?s for sure. That?s what makes them interesting.

Am I that predictable? Yeah, I do disagree.

Meh, I just know you too well

I suppose that could be the case. However, given that the entire Temple knows Anakin spends his nights

Are you getting that from the EU, Forrest?

I think so, but the fact that Anakin and Padme hugged after the duel

Doesn?t mean they?re an item. They could just be friends.

and that Anakin spends many of his nights with Padme(admittedly they only know for sure in the EU, but the Chosen One leaving the Temple is something I wouldn't be surprised that they were aware of)

I doubt it. They kept an eye on Anakin but I doubt anyone actually ?stocked? him.

He may have tried to be less blunt with his criticisms of Anakin. I don't know that it would have actually done anything, but he would have at least have been trying to fix the situation rather than only complaining about it.

Again, we don?t know if Anakin tried to talk to Obi-Wan or not. And I honestly don?t think Obi-Wan would have given up his teaching methods. He would probably say that Anakin was ?over-exaggerating? or being rebellion or impudent or just wanting to do thing his way and not get criticized. I just don?t think Obi-Wan realized that he was being harsh. *shrug* Again, just my opinion.

He was and he does, but he never seems to even really acknowledge that it really is a great honor. Most Jedi never get to sit on the Council in their entire lives let alone when they're so young.

Yea, but considering that he wasn?t elected to the council but put on it b/c of Palpatine it wasn?t much of an achievement. And the council?s refusal to make him a master seemed to highlight the matter. Plus the assignment. Anakin had every reason to believe that he wasn?t put on the council as an honor but rather b/c the council needed him for their own devises. I think in this sort of situation its rather hard to feel honored.

It's not, but it's not quite an applicable example either. The Council is far wiser than Anakin is.

Its adequate enough in the sense that its not ver pleasant ? being the middle man.

Obi-Wan has faith in him, but given that Obi-Wan's agreeing Anakin shouldn't have to spy on the Chancellor,

Wow, wow, wait! What does Obi-Wan give ANY indication that Anakin shouldn?t spy on the Chancellor? To me it actually seemed like he thought it was a good idea, and he was doing everything he could to get Anakin to see things that way too.

I think it's more that he didn't want to see his "brother" and former Padawan put into such a difficult situation.

I don?t think he WANTED to see Anakin in a difficult situation but I don?t think he made it out to be a BD and probably thought that ANAKIN was making too much of a BD out of it.

I don't remember so if you're willing to find it that could be good.

I didn?t think you did?it was a long