main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT A few questions bugging me

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by herreros, May 23, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Force lightning =/= regular lightning; it has a whole host of potential physical side-effects, including draining energy from the victim. Plus of course Palpatine didn't start with full-strength bolts at first; he was deliberately using lower-powered bolts to prolong Luke's death.

    Force Lightning

    Delayed Bone And Joint Changes Following Electrical Injury

    iirc TaB said Luke was suffering from calcification, but from what I can tell that isn't caused directly by electricity; however as we know that Force Lightning quite literally drains your body, perhaps the book meant calcification occured from severe vitamin deficiencies as a side effect of the lightning's draining qualities.
     
  2. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Yet he clearly tries to kill him with a sustained, concentrated bout before Vader throws him down the chute.

    "Now young Skywalker, you will die".

    That Luke might have received some delayed, internal reaction to Palpatine's attack doesn't at all link in with the supposed, immediate injuries and external disfigurement Palpatine receives in ROTS. While people can try and justify these differences as being down to the reflection from a lightsaber, or being down to the distances from which the bolts were received, neither of these seem legitimate justifications in my book. One should also surely question why, if Palpatine was being caused such horrible, unwanted injuries, he persisted with a detrimental plan of attack that Windu seemed clearly competent enough to deal with.

    The other thing to consider is Palpatine's voice, which also changes significantly, along with his appearance. If we're not speculating that lightning was the cause of the change in his voice, and we accept that the voice we hear from ROTS onwards was indeed Palpatine's true voice, the idea he was indeed hiding his true form while he was in political office becomes much more legible.
     
  3. otr

    otr Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 31, 2011
    "Palpatine has a lot of agents. Someone probably reported to him that the Death Star killer was named "Luke Skywalker". Vader probably told him that the pilot destroying the Death Star was force sensitive. Imo he just put 1 and 1 together."

    I've just got into this site and read a few threads on this topic and have an issue with it. We know Vader believes his kid died until some point when he realizes that Luke is his son. Most people seem to believe that just because Luke is from the some planet, with the same name (that he gets in between movies from investigation), bc Vader senses the force is strong with him, Padme was pregnant, and bc Vader goes after him so hard that Vader must realize that he is his son. While I like this interpretation I don't believe it has to be the only one. Luke is raised by Vader's half brother i believe? My question then is, since its Vader's family that is raising Luke isnt it possible that in Vader's eyes Luke is a relative of his and not his son? Every other condition still makes sense in this scenario. He can still be searching for his relative with the secret mission to turn Luke and overthrow palpatine. Let me know if im off the deep end with this.

    Side problem to this that i have is Luke being named Skywalker. I havent watched the OT in a few years so my memory might be hazy. He knows that his parents are dead and that his aunt and uncle are raising him. Are their names Skywalker? If so how? Anikan does not have a father and his half brother, if i read correctly, is the one who raises Luke. It doesnt make sense for him to have the name of his mother unless he is a bastard son like Anikan (i guess thats possible since shes a slave). Thanks guys
     
  4. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000

    And just...where did I post about Palpatine's voice or face at all? I was talking about Luke's bone calcification, which normally doesn't happen with exposure to lightning.
     
  5. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I don't think Owen is force sensitive and the force seems to be mostly hereditary. It would be one hell of a coincidence if Owen had fathered a sensitive child. There's also the question where Anakins force sensitivity initially comes from. From Shmi? From his mystery-father?
    Also I find it likely that Anakin and Padmé debated about the name they would give their child. Luke was probably the name they chose for a son. At least that's what parents usually do before getting a child.
    And thirdly Owen and Beru do not hold the name Skywalker but are named Lars.

    Other interpretations are still possible but the theory that he just put 1 and 1 together seems the most likely one to me.

    Their names are Owen and Beru Lars according to the Wookieepedia. Owen was named after his father Cliegg Lars, the husband of Shmi after she was freed from slavery.
     
  6. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    I wasn't implying you had mentioned his voice.

    My post was still addressing the wider issue at hand, to which your point about Palpatine allegedly using a lower concentration of lightning on Luke could have been quoted and justified as reason for there being a difference between Palpatine's and Luke's features post-lightning. I was simply trying to diffuse any such reasoning as inconsistent. It was nothing against you or your argument about Luke's internal injuries, with which I have no issue as it falls into EU territory.
     
  7. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Btw., you people seem to mix "calcification" with "decalcification". Decalcification is the one that results in brittle bones because calcium is transported out of the bone tissue. Calcification means that calcium-salts are concentrated in places of the body it shouldn't be aka no brittle bones.

    As a general rule the prefix "de" or "des" usually means something is taken away from somewhere. Deoxy means that oxygen was removed from the molecule.
     
  8. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    What do you mean "you people"?[face_monkey]
     
  9. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    timmoishere and Darth Boba
     
  10. herreros

    herreros Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 23, 2011
    According to the official website, Palpatine was in -82BBY so that contradicts the idea that he's really old.

    My opinion is that we might be giving too much credit to Lucas, in the prequels he was obsessed to add references and cameos to the original movies, not caring too much about if it made sense or not.
    For instance the ridiculous idea that Anakin built C3PO but without the cover (there must be rule that the robots have to be in every SW movie) and somebody else had to come up with the idea that Anakin just found it and put it together.
     
  11. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    The whole idea rests on the fact he is and always has pretended to be someone he's not to win political favour. What it says in an official biography doesn't necessarily have much weight. I seriously doubt the Palpatine we first saw in ESB, and more clearly defined in ROTJ, was conceived as an 80-odd year old man with some scarring.
     
  12. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008
    For instance the ridiculous idea that Anakin built C3PO but without the cover (there must be rule that the robots have to be in every SW movie) and somebody else had to come up with the idea that Anakin just found it and put it together.

    Why is the idea that Anakin had built C-3P0 out of spare parts ridiculous?
     
  13. herreros

    herreros Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 23, 2011
    In the movie he says he built him himself to help his mother but it was unfinished. That is ridiculous for a number of reasons.
    Then somebody came up with the explanation that he found the parts in an alley and put it together and said so to impress Padme. Which still hard to believe but relatively plausible.

    It's like when Padme is assigned by the decoy queen to clean up R2-D2. Lucas needs something for the plot and does it; and then let's other people figure out a plausible explanation.
     
  14. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    It is?[face_thinking]
    This works despite its advancement of the plot (though this action alone has relatively little affect on the plot). It shows us that Padme is treated as any other handmaiden would be and given no preferential treatment, which also works to diffuse any suspicions those around the group might have about her true identity.
     
  15. herreros

    herreros Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 23, 2011
    3PO is a series of mass produced high tech robots with the intellectual property belonging to Cybot Galactica. Have you heard of any 8 year old that built on its own an iPad replica? Absurd.
    Even assuming that, Anakin says he built it to help his mother. If you build a robot from scratch, what use does shmi have of a clumsy translator? A dishwasher would be a far better assistance.

    Well, one of the queen's maid doing maintenance work, now that's suspicious!!!. A maid helps dressing, with the make up and such; doesn't do technical support.
    Plus the whole idea of thanking a robot is odd; in SW robots are treated like mere appliances.
    BTW, R2 didn't save the day, after he fixed the shields they didn't receive a single shot. Didn't make any actual difference. :)
    Lucas needed Padme and Anakin to be alone and didn't spend much time figuring it out.

    When Lucas needed Padme to die he just made the doctor say "she doesn't what to live". Yeah, I guess is as simple as that; I wonder what is all the fuss about euthanasia if you can just wish to die (without being seriously injured) and die.
     
  16. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Thats kind of the point though isnt it? Any kid who did would be considered special, no? Anakin is portrayed as special, from his building and fixing of gadgets and his ability to pilot a ship that no other human could. Kids are capable of remarkable things, be it our world or the GFFA (on a somewhat more magical platform, admittedly). While I've never heard of an 8 year old (not wishing to split hairs, but Anakin is 9) creating their own iPad, I've never heard of an 8 year old piloting a 600 mph vessel around a race track either. Funny though how you dont take issue with this...
    You've no idea what a handmaiden does or doesn't do on Naboo, or in regards to Queen Amidala... or maybe you do, if you watch the film. You assume any-old pilot fortunate enough to be on board (unknown to the Queen) would be a more obvious candidate for such a role. Yet your assumption goes against what we learn in the movie itself. A bit like Threepio. You dispute Shmi's need for a protocol droid, yet we know Anakin has built her one to "help" her. By that, clearly she has need for one. Its a bit like rejecting the idea of a Jedi or labelling them stupid because they use close-range laserswords in an age of blasters. However weird it might seem to your eyes, thats the way it is. None of it is illogical. You just seem to not want it to make any sense.
    Are you seriously telling me C3P0 and R2D2 were never treated like people in the OT???? Luke thanks Threepio and Artoo a whole bunch of times.
    I'm sure if you watch the film again, when Ric Olie is remarking "that little droid did it", outside the cockpit you can see the lasers still firing. I might be wrong, but I'm sure its only the exterior shot of them passing the blockade that shows no shots being fired. Regardless, Artoo's efforts were still due merit.
    Which bit are you referring to exactly?
    It would have been very easy for Anakin to inflict other life threatening injuries on Padme when he choked her, should Lucas have wanted to have her suffer a more common kind of death. However, maybe, just maybe, he was making a point and showing preference in having her die the other way. Star Wars is quite the fairytale when it wants to be. Padme's death is one such example and references of many in the series. Its in no way convenient or lazy. It would have been far easier and less risky to do it a different way.

    Anyway, our discussion seems to be veering into exclusively PT territory now. We should really focus on the OT/CT, as thats the forum we're in.
     
  17. herreros

    herreros Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 23, 2011
    You're right. This is not the place to discuss why Episode I is so enraging. :)

    I'm ok with the kid driving a pod at 600mph because the Force is giving him superhuman reflexes. While the force can help you do things instinctively, it won't make you an expert in high tech robotics.
     
  18. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Sorry, did you say "enraging" or engaging? ;)
    I dunno, I think its perfectly plausible in the Star Wars world. There are kids here who can do extraordinary things we otherwise wouldn't think them capable of (whether it be mathematical ability or musical ability that exceeds even highly competent individuals in the same field who are much older). We cant explain how these kids can do such things. They just can. They're special... much like Anakin.
     
  19. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    The book specifically says "calcification". So does the wookiepedia article that you apparently didn't bother reading. We're not wrong.
     
  20. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Perhaps it is exaggerated, but then, so is Luke's ability to stay alive during the Death Star trench run. I mean, this kid has been on Tatooine his entire life, but suddenly he can hold his own against TIE fighter pilots? That's rather unrealistic as well. And as for Anakin's mechanical skills, that reminds me of a conference on autism I attended a few months back for a psychology class. One of the speakers worked with a five year old boy who was a "savant" and could fix any machine. He brought the kid a broken microwave and the kid managed to fix it. He also said that this child managed to build a working refrigerator out of spare parts. It's certainly not impossible to be "gifted" with machines.

    Shmi could use C3P0 for the same reason that Owen, a farmer, wanted a protocol droid: to talk to other machines. Anakin and his mother are owned by Watto who owns a junk shop. Shmi likely spends quite a bit of time repairing or building machines. Under these circumstances, C3PO could be very useful in terms of communication, by finding out what is wrong with a particular ship, appliance, droid, etc.

    Actually, the fake Queen signaling out Padme had one very important effect: it moved her into her bodyguard's line of sight, so the "fake" queen could see Padme's reaction to Qui-Gon's proposal and react accordingly. It's like when the queen says "either choice present great danger to us all" and turns toward Padme at the Palace -- she's looking for approval. Padme can go clean R2 after the meeting (and no one would really say anything if she convinced someone else to do it, honestly).
     
  21. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Not only does that assumption fail to explain the eyes and voice, but it is contradicted by various sources including Ian, Dark Lord, the Genndy cartoon and Sithisis, while there are actually no official sources promoting the fanon lightning theory. The situation is fairly well explained by Gary Sarli here ( scroll down ).

    There was no "mystery father". Anakin was created by the midichlorians, either through Sith manipulation or the WOTF alone. His Force sensitivity doesn't come from Shmi, it comes from his artificially high midichlorian count.

    Yes, this is one of the myths being spread by RLM/Stoklasa. The truth is that they do get hit after R2 fixes the shields.
     
  22. Captain_Cosmos

    Captain_Cosmos Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Isn't most of this about the PT? After ESB and especially after ROTJ, Lucas changed most of the rules and continuity, so I don't think you can get logical answers to Lucas' illogical conclusions, not without doing a lot of forcing anyway. For example, during the OT the Emperor's looks were caused by extreme age, not by Force Lightning, otherwise Luke would've been changed in the same way. Nope, the OT showed Force Lightning only causes electrocution, not physical alterations.
     
  23. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    There are different theories around this subject. My favorite one is that Anakin is the product of rape. One can of course prefer the more mystical theory of a conception by the force or Sith alchemy.
     
  24. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Any theory that Anakin was the prodcut of either rape (or even some secretive affair Shmi had that she would like to keep quiet) is as much supported as any theory I could concoct that Luke and Leia were in fact the offspring of another unknown Jedi with whom Padme had an affair while Anakin was away. Its a useless, baseless, completely unsupported idea. In a pure storytelling sense (given this isn't real life) one must accept Anakin was created by the midichlorians. We can either put this down to Sith manipulation or will of the force, but that's the only issue up for debate regarding the character's origin.
     
  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    The point is that it is only under the "lightning theory" that there is any contradiction. As Sarli says, Luke was being hit by Force lightning for quite some time, and he wasn't scarred like that.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.