A General discussion on the Christian faith and message

I'm not sure YOU even know what you're arguing.....................

i was arguing that a beatles quote is good to describe the love and i was arguing that no matter what else is there, it is love that gave birth to wisdom and whatever else.

 

We are, or at least I was, discussing your statement :
"I understand that, but for me it amounts to the same thing. If the Christian cosmology is true, and if God is a God of love, then there would be no "separation." "

This separation as you call it stems from the fact the people have a choice whether or not to serve God. If people refuse to Serve him, his quality of love is perfectly balanced with his Justice One of the other three attributes.

Just because Love is Gods greatest qualitiy it does not stiffle out his other attributes. His other attributes Justice in particular, while not as prominent as his love, still causes him to act accordingly.

 

a) i didn't state that. i don't capitalize and while i agree with it, i have simply carried over from an argument you had with someone else.

b) if god loves me, whatever i do, no matter what mess i make, if god indeed loves unconditionally, there is never seperation. there is only seperation when judgement comes in. true love never separates.

there is scripture for you as well:

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

it's from 1 corinthians 13.

 

Except that isn't true.

As a parent, you can love your children unconditionally, and honestly want what is best for them, and yet they can still choose to walk away from you. That's a direct consequence of agency. I loved my ex-wife unconditionally, and yet she still chose to end our marriage. By your reasoning, her choice proves that my love was not unconditional.

God has given us our free will, and has said that He will not take it away from us, because He loves us. As a result, we can be separated from God's presence, but only if we choose to separate ourselves. God doesn't force us out, we walk out on Him.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Let's be clear on this because, you DID state this!
Date Posted: 10/29 7:43am Subject: RE: A General discussion on the Christian faith and message I understand that, but for me it amounts to the same thing. If the Christian cosmology is true, and if God is a God of love, then there would be no "separation." Thats the only reason I said anything.

This kind of thinking is dangerous. It amounts to saying you can sin all you want and do whatever you want to without any consrquenses, because God will always forgive. This goes completely against any form of Justice. Gods Justice is balanced by love and as I said because Love is his greatest attribute, doesn't mean he disregards everything else.

While Jesus sacrifice covers a multitude of sins it does NOT cover sins against his holy spirit. Matt 12:31,Mark 3:29,

 

haha you're right! why did i capitalize??? oh my!

kimball, i think you're taking me a bit literal. i don't mean no separation as in living with your parents until you're dead. that'd be rather sad, wouldn't it.

i understand separation as a separation from your self, psychologically perhaps, brought about by an inability to accept the totality of ourselves. the moment of release is others loving you for 'who you are', no matter what you do.

i find that you bring up an interesting point regarding your ex-wife, though, and without wanting to discuss you personally (i don't think i'm fit to do that anyway), what is the meaning of marriage and divorce? is there not a possessive element to it?

darthob1, i think you're mistaking 'love' with weakness of character and integrity. it doesn't mean enabling or indulgence. it means that no matter what, god will not leave you.

i don't believe in jesus' sacrifice as a divine plan of action and even if he sacrificed himself for anyone, i don't think he carried a list of what and what not he would amend by dying.

 

God "may not ever leave us" but at the instance you choose to turn your back against him, he'll won't stop you from doing so.

Yeah that's a whole other discussion in of itself. I for one KNOW Jesus and God a two separate individuals. Jehovah is God and Jesus is his only begotten son. Jesus came on this earth as a perfect man to prove that a perfect man could be faithful to God. Satan could claim that Man, Gods creation, was somehow defective, because or their tenancy to sin. After Adam, because of being the first born, no one could legitimately claim perfection thus proving Satan wrong until Jesus came as a perfect man. He lived and dies in perfection, proving that man was not a faulty creation of God. But like I said thats a whole other issue and its probably gonna blow up starting now!

 

i never said god wouldn't stop me, i just said god wouldn't hold a grudge against me for doing it (figuratively speaking of course).

 

Indeed he holds no grudges. He knows very well the choice is our very own. He has warned us of the consequences of our unwise decisions and will not protect us from them.