A live action and a new animated SW series?? (From the Marketing meeting)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by wstraka5, Nov 6, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DarthStinkyBritches Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2001
    star 2
    How quick we are to forget the Ewoks TV Movies.

    yeah, a live action SW stands a 90% chance of sucking on the hotend of a lightsaber. Thoughts of SW turning as bad as ST: Voyager fill my eyes with tears.

    Cartoons are the best way to go.
  2. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    But the Ewok TV movies were not created to be in the same vein as the films.

    It's fairly easy to imagine, IMO- with the CGI and technology available today, just take any successful sci-fi series at it's prime (latter seasons of Babylon 5, Farscape, SG-1, etc) and increase it's budget a bit and you'd pretty much have it.

    It'd really be more dependent on the writing quality, though, since a TV show couldn't rely on the quantity of FX to make up for any narrative shortcomings like the films can.

    IMO, it'd actually be harder for the TV show to suck than it would be for it to be good. It'd be quite difficult for any show to actually end up worse than the worst SW film.
  3. DarthStinkyBritches Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2001
    star 2
    But the Ewok TV movies were not created to be in the same vein as the films.

    I would hope a live action TV show wouldn't be in the same vein as the SW movies either.

    Personally, if there were a live action show, I'd love for it to be about a smuggler type character. Han Solo-ish but not exactly. Space battles, a love interest, fist fights, a lightsaber here and there, running from bounty hunters.


    IMO, it'd actually be harder for the TV show to suck than it would be for it to be good. It'd be quite difficult for any show to actually end up worse than the worst SW film.

    which would be? I'm afraid I don't have such hopes for a SW TV show. Even what I would consider a great SW TV show, wouldn't come close the any of the movies.
  4. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    > Personally, if there were a live action show, I'd love for it to be about a smuggler type character. Han Solo-ish but not exactly. Space battles, a love interest, fist fights, a lightsaber here and there, running from bounty hunters.

    That would be Dash Rendar. Or Kyle Katarn, or...
  5. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    >> which would be?<<

    IMO, it'd be TPM, but that's up to the individual's opinion I suppose, but regardless of which you find to be the worst, most people seem to have the same "feeling" about the one they do find to be such, and I think it'd be difficult for any TV show (that is created to be in the same vein of the films) to end up coming across worse.
  6. ForceMaster101 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2003
    star 5
    Nickelodeon is making a Fairly Oddparents Star Wars.
  7. GhostPoet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 1
    How about a live action taking place inbetween empire strikes back and return of the jedi.

    Maybe about a lone jedi with his R2 companion (he can't trust anyone, so naturally he would have a droid for a friend), a bounty hunter with lots of gadets (no mask) and an imperial (woman) that has to leave the empire and ends up with them. Meanwhile, the imperials are after her and the jedi...and the bounty hunter gets caught up in the complex plot...twisting story.

    Later, you would discover a Sith cult is in charge of a shadow group within the Empire.

    I actually have a large story already written in my head...but...I have no illusions about thinking I'd actually sell it..even if i'm a script writer. :/
  8. GhostPoet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 1
    btw...there's a GOOD chance that a live action star wars would NOT suck...you are forgetting that Lucas wouldn't have much input (just basic input) into a star wars live action show..he's done with star wars for the most part after EPIII. Lucas was in charge of Ewoks, Droids and the holiday special...need I say more. :)

    So Lucasfilms...having more control=GOOD show of any type.
  9. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    btw...there's a GOOD chance that a live action star wars would NOT suck...you are forgetting that Lucas wouldn't have much input (just basic input) into a star wars live action show..he's done with star wars for the most part after EPIII. Lucas was in charge of Ewoks, Droids and the holiday special...need I say more.

    So Lucasfilms...having more control=GOOD show of any type.


    i would agree there. i would much rather see Lucas' personal involvement in any TV show, live-action or animated, be minimal. Lucasfilms and LFL would handle it better.

    as far as the issue of live-action vs animation, i think animation is the way to go, personally.

    i think that live-action is dicey at best. i think any proposal that revolves around re-casting an OT character with a new actor is a non-starter. the casual TV audience would violently reject anyone but Harrison Ford playing Han Solo, especially, and the whole idea screams "cheap TV knock-off." i'm willing to go out on a limb and predict that any live-action show featuring Han, Leia, or Luke, as played by anyone but the original actors, will fail and become a major embarassment. i also don't trust the current TV environment to allow any live-action SW show that's not Buffy: The Sith Lord Slayer to see air.

    regarding the issue of the EU: i'm sorry to disappoint the purists, but LFL is going to do everything in its power to make sure that any TV show works with the EU. if you need any further evidence of that, look at the Clone Wars shorts, nearly all of which are set in EU locations which look exactly like they do in the EU, heavily feature EU characters like Durge and Ventress, and tie neatly into existing EU storylines. whatever you personally may think of the EU, it's at the very least it's a nice cash cow for Lucas, and he's going to trust the people who are making him money not to upset the boat.

    however, to disappoint the EU defenders, we're never going to see straight adaptations of EU stories into TV format, either. no Thrawn Trilogy live-action show or NJO cartoon, though whatever stories they do tell won't contradict them and will end up meshing nicely.

    i would expect any TV show to be a major multimedia joint enterprise exactly like the Clone Wars in execution, with the TV show tying into the comics, books, and videogames, but without any redundancy - each part overlaps and ties in, but no two parts tell the same story and each stands independently. for example, you're never going to see a comics version of the SW: Bounty Hunter video game story, but that story ties in directly to Jango Fett: Open Seasons. you don't need to play the game to understand the comic, or vice versa, but they are set in the same world and do work together quite nicely.
  10. Drath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1998
    star 1
    Never say never. I agree we won't see a live action version of any of the books either, but animation is another story.
  11. Palp_Faction Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 3
    My bet is that we will see a live-action TV show which will take place somewhere between Episodes III and IV. There are 20 years to play with! I doubt it will feature any of the main characters. As for storylines, they will probably feature the first stirrings of rebellion, the Jedi Purge etc. It's unexplored and far too tempting for Lucasfilm not to set TV shows, books, comics and video games in this era.
  12. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    the problem with animating established EU stories is that the ones in highest demand are, frankly, not very good. the Thrawn Trilogy is terribly overrated, and most of the Bantam-era New Republic stories are just plain terrible. the Zahn novels try to recapture the epic feel of the movies and fall flat, and most TV audiences would find them dull and unfulfilling. Dark Empire is just silly, the JAT is awful, and everything between the JAT and HoT is even worse.

    the NJO is much better, but it may be a little too weird and may require too much background to be accessible. the X-Wing books may do well as an ongoing animated series, but it would probably work better to just have new Rogue Squadron stories instead.

    none of these stories demand to be told in TV show format, and as a result i don't think there's anything in the EU that's so good for these purposes that would outweigh the benefits of using new material. honestly, adaptations are kind of boring in any case, and present all sorts of problems for the TV show creators. one of the biggest ones is the need to stay "within the script" stifles creativity and turns the already difficult work of making a TV show into total drudgery.

    Lucasfilm would be better off finding a nice corner of the established continuity which is under-explored, and setting any TV show there, and the benefits to doing new material are so overwhelming i can't imagine them doing anything different.
  13. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    the problem with animating established EU stories is that the ones in highest demand are, frankly, not very good. the Thrawn Trilogy is terribly overrated, and most of the Bantam-era New Republic stories are just plain terrible. the Zahn novels try to recapture the epic feel of the movies and fall flat, and most TV audiences would find them dull and unfulfilling. Dark Empire is just silly, the JAT is awful, and everything between the JAT and HoT is even worse.

    In YOUR (minority, I might add) opinion.

    The Thrawn Trilogy sold more books than the NJO could ever hope to. ;)
  14. amidalak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2003
    star 1
    In YOUR (minority, I might add) opinion.

    maybe in these forums, but i don't think so in the community at large. i have too many star wars geek friends who see things exactly like dizfactor to think they, and me included, are in the minority.

    comparing the amount of books the thrawn trilogy sold to the njo based on their quality isn't exactly fair, as there really wasn't any star wars lit available when the thrawn trilogy came out, so a great deal of the excitement and uproar about that series was due to it's newness and the fact that there was finally something for us star wars geeks to sink our teeth into. the njo didn't have that luxury, and, to a certain degree, probably fell victim to some of the backlash against star wars caused by the prequels and general over exposure.

    all that being said, i agree with dizfactor, a successful tv show should be original in it's story, although an ongoing x-wing animated series could be alright.
  15. Drath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1998
    star 1
    Hmm, well I don't agree about the Zahn books not being good at all. As far as measuring current popular opinion, I don't know what that is, and to be fair neither do you. Should the number of people who don't like the prequels dictate if we get an Episode 3? It's about what stories the storytellers want to tell. And I think they'd want to tell (or re-tell) the first major EU events to follow the movie canon if that's all the Star Wars we are going to get from now on.

    I still think the main problem with EU is that Star Wars is more familiar (and in my opinion more comfortable) in an audio-visual medium. Convert the best parts of EU into film and I think it would have more fans. No, not everyone would like it, I know that. Some would still hate the cloned Jedi, Dark Jedi, Ysalimiri, Thrawn as a villain, or Mara Jade the Emperor's Hand elements. But to that I say Ewoks, Gungans, and "midichlorians." Not everyone will be happy. I don't think it means the rest of us can't have an animated adaptation of how Luke first met his wife, the birth of Leia's children, and so forth.
  16. DarthStinkyBritches Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2001
    star 2
    Lucas was in charge of Ewoks, Droids and the holiday special...need I say more.

    I don't know about the Holiday Special. I watched it not too long ago and don't remember even seeing Lucas' name in the credits. He definitely didn't write or direct that trash. Give GL some credit will ya? :)


    Oh yeah, and the Thrawn trilogy is amazingly overrated, and some of the ideas brought forth in that storyline are hokey. Exactly like Dark Empire which were the two series that kicked off the restart of the EU. Not a good foundation to build on. I read the EU, but to me it's a "different universe".
  17. amidalak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2003
    star 1
    As far as measuring current popular opinion, I don't know what that is, and to be fair neither do you.

    and that was my point, about people who are not crazy about the eu being the minority.

    And I think they'd want to tell (or re-tell) the first major EU events to follow the movie canon if that's all the Star Wars we are going to get from now on.

    and i'd think they would rather do something original, still just our differing opinions.

    Not everyone will be happy. I don't think it means the rest of us can't have an animated adaptation of how Luke first met his wife, the birth of Leia's children, and so forth.

    your right about the fact not everyone will be happy, but with tv, a certain amount of people must be made happy in order to get the ratings required to keep a show profitable and therefore on the air. my point is that because there is a group of people in our community who dislike greatly a great deal of the eu that has been presented in literature form, it might be a better idea to do something original that would immediately appeal to a larger part of our community, than to use material that is going to immediately alienate some fans.

    hey, i'll admit i'm not crazy about most of the old bantam eu lit. i never bought into the cloned jedi stuff, which made the thrawn trilogy only so-so to me. dark empire just seemed ridiculous to me. and the prequels kinda put the smackdown on, specifically, stackpole's x-wing novels and i, jedi, and on some of the other books in the bantam lineup, due to issues of canon/continuity. so i am one of those fans that would not be interested in seeing these things made in tv format, and probably wouldn't watch them if they were, and i have friends who agree with me in this. why alienate us when something could be done that would appeal to almost all of us?

    i agree that star wars is best in the audio-visual medium, making it all the more important that any attempt at putting it into this format is done well and appeals to as much of our community as possible.
  18. Drath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1998
    star 1
    and that was my point, about people who are not crazy about the eu being the minority.

    Except you cite people you?ve talked to like that proves that people who don?t like the Zahn books are in the majority outside of this forum when it doesn?t. As you said, and as I?d hoped was implied in my message, opinions are going to differ and it can?t be helped.

    my point is that because there is a group of people in our community who dislike greatly a great deal of the eu that has been presented in literature form, it might be a better idea to do something original that would immediately appeal to a larger part of our community, than to use material that is going to immediately alienate some fans.

    It might, or it might not, so what? People made up their minds not to like Clone Wars too. I don?t agree that important EU events, specifically those depicted in the Zahn trilogy, shouldn?t be adapted because some people won?t be happy because that will always be the case.

    i am one of those fans that would not be interested in seeing these things made in tv format, and probably wouldn't watch them if they were, and i have friends who agree with me in this. why alienate us when something could be done that would appeal to almost all of us?

    Well I am one of those fans who would be interested in seeing at least some major high points of EU like the Zahn novels appear in animated form. And I too have friends who agree. Again, that?s not an argument. More importantly, many fans would watch it. Are you saying you would absolutely not even give it a chance? Can you speak for everyone else who says they wouldn?t?
  19. DarthHutt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2000
    star 5
    If they plan on doing any serious post-ROTJ TV stuff, it will likely be animation.
    They may be able to get Mark Hamill, or even Carrie Fisher, but it's VERY unlikely that Harrison Ford will do a weekly SW TV-series.

    ------------------

    My preference would be:

    1) An animated version of the NJO book series.
    -or-
    2) A live-action series about the Old Republic when the Sith were plentiful.
  20. Drath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1998
    star 1
    Mark Hamill did a pretty good Harrison Ford voice when he was on the Rosie O'Donnell show way back when. Perhaps if Genndy gets to do that Han Solo and Chewbacca series he's expressed interest in they could use him.
  21. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Thrawn Trilogy being overrated is a matter of opinion- I read them 12 years ago when they first came out (or whenever it was), and then had them sit on my shelf until earlier this year, as I do not typically re-read a book. However, it'd been so long that I'd forgotten all but the basic plot elements of the series, so I reread it.

    And, quite frankly, I was blown away- IMO, if anything, the Thrawn series is actually underrated. It captures the feel of the films but adds a level of tactics to things (much like how the prequels added a level of politics to things).

    >>your right about the fact not everyone will be happy, but with tv, a certain amount of people must be made happy in order to get the ratings required to keep a show profitable and therefore on the air.<<

    However, your overlooking the simple fact that the majority of people who would tune into a TV series won't be among the small minority both purists and completists represent- the general public has no concept of the book stories being or not being distinguished from the films.

    They'll watch anything that has the SW label on it, and if they enjoy the stories they see, they'll continue to watch the show. In the grand scheme of things, the people who care about such matters on these boards are almost wholey insignificant to the success of a show-especially since the completists would likely watch it regardless.

    In other words, they don't need to appeal to our little community here to make the show sucecssful.

    >>and the prequels kinda put the smackdown on, specifically, stackpole's x-wing novels<<

    What in the prequels affects the X-Wing novels?
  22. amidalak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2003
    star 1
    Except you cite people you?ve talked to like that proves that people who don?t like the Zahn books are in the majority outside of this forum when it doesn?t.

    no, the only thing i was trying to prove is that there are people who don't care for the eu lit and wouldn't want to see it put on tv.

    It might, or it might not, so what?

    i think you are missing my point, it's not that some people hate eu, so lfl should cater to those people, it's that in order for a tv show to be successful, it will have to pull in ratings. why would lfl take the chance of losing potential viewers right off the bat by doing eu lit, that at best, gets mixed reviews from it's main intended audience, existing star wars fans?

    Are you saying you would absolutely not even give it a chance? Can you speak for everyone else who says they wouldn?t?

    no, i wouldn't watch it, i read the books, and while they were entertaining, it's not something i want to see put into the all important audio visual medium. the friends i have quoted before, after having this discussion with them on many occasions, agree. and of course i can't speak for everyone else, i'm not trying to, just voicing my opinion. my opinion, in a nutshell, is that a star wars tv show needs as large an audience as possible to be successful, so why not do something original that everyone can get behind?

    What in the prequels affects the X-Wing novels?

    corran horn, jedi families, etc.
  23. Drath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1998
    star 1
    no, the only thing i was trying to prove is that there are people who don't care for the eu lit and wouldn't want to see it put on tv.

    Your whole argument is based on the notion that the fans who would not watch any adaptation of an EU novel, without even giving it a chance to win them over, is enough to hurt their ratings and influence their choices!

    i think you are missing my point, it's not that some people hate eu, so lfl should cater to those people, it's that in order for a tv show to be successful, it will have to pull in ratings.

    If you?re not saying lfl should cater to those people, why shouldn?t they produce the series? The only way your argument works is if in fact a significant amount of the audience does as you would do and make up their minds not to watch before seeing even a bit of footage. Why else would you think an animated series of Zahn?s trilogy wouldn?t pull in sufficient ratings? Again, we don?t know who the majority is, but I?ll bet you that more people who like the Star Wars movies and who would watch a Star Wars animated miniseries have never read the Zahn books for one reason or another but would not let that decision influence their choice to watch the cartoon if it looked good. We knew some people would not watch Clone Wars too, but it has been a success.

    why would lfl take the chance of losing potential viewers right off the bat by doing eu lit, that at best, gets mixed reviews from it's main intended audience, existing star wars fans? my opinion, in a nutshell, is that a star wars tv show needs as large an audience as possible to be successful, so why not do something original that everyone can get behind?

    Right off the bat? I?m not talking about the only show here. If you?re thinking about an ongoing flagship live action TV show, then I?d agree that something not confined to an EU story would be better. But I have repeatedly referred to an animated mini series. Why bother with the story? Because they can establish good characters that are important to the EU before striking off to do as they?ve done with Clone Wars and create original stories separate from the books. There?s room for everyone to like what they get this way. I?m not saying they can?t do original stories, or even that they should do the Zahn novels first, but that they are an important part of the EU story following RotJ and well worth adapting to the small screen. My way can give everyone what they want, your way deprives many people of something they?d enjoy.
  24. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    I would truly like to see new and fresh material. I love the novels, comics, video games an the movies, not to mention the old cartoon series. I would like to see a star wars tv movie, tv series, and animation series. More video games and comics. oohh well, maybe its just me.
  25. JibClimmer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Anyone read Stackpole's books? That's what they need to make! I think a cartoon format would be able to make use of the wider scope of necessary to show a squadron. I want to see real snubfighter battles, and cap ships shooting at each other for real like Stackpole describes it. That would be bliss.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.