A Logical Look at the Existence (or Non-Existence) of God.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lady Viskor, Nov 22, 2003.

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  1. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    don't confuse personal naivity and misunderstanding with a lack of feasibility.
  2. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    epic

    That Statement is sword that cuts both ways.:)
  3. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    The more science studies our world and the universe we come understand it just couldn't happen.

    Totally incorrect, it's the other way around. Science shows over and over that the Universe did not need a creator.

    Go read the link I provided.
  4. GrandDesigner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2003
    star 2
    " If the Christian God is NOT real, then anyone claiming to be God, as far as I'm concerned, is merely an ego-centric monkey with dilusions of grandeur."

    Thats sort of what I was getting at.

    "Science shows over and over that the Universe did not need a creator."

    The word need, again, is good to get away from. Neccessity is much different than want. But as humans keep delving deeper into the ways the Universe runs, possibly in hope to show a creator wasn't needed, realize G-D, no matter how grand and intelligent, must, at times, discern if He had a creator too.

    I bet G-D is happy there is an eternity to decipher these questions.

    G-D
  5. mariel_rose Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Um, if there isn't a creator, and we know that science proves that there isn't one, why are we debating on the subject?

    How do you explain how birds seem to know where to go each winter if non-intelligent dust particles banged into each other and made a planet?

    The question is if there isn't a creator as you say science says why are we questioning the all-powerful science?

    Are you saying science can prove everything? If so, what is religion, emotion, miracle, etc. in science terms that everyone can understand?

    If science proves that we don't have a creator, why don't we worship science instead?

    If we don't have a creator, then why do we ask why, if everything is proven by science?

    If science is so powerful, let's make a human without cloning anything and just use science, nothing else, but to make one, hum?

  6. MasterZap Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2002
    star 4
    Um, if there isn't a creator, and we know that science proves that there isn't one, why are we debating on the subject?
    You tell me.

    How do you explain how birds seem to know where to go each winter if non-intelligent dust particles banged into each other and made a planet?
    Evolution.

    The question is if there isn't a creator as you say science says why are we questioning the all-powerful science?
    You tell me.

    Are you saying science can prove everything? If so, what is religion, emotion, miracle, etc. in science terms that everyone can understand?


    Religion - a worldview originating from primitive evolutionary traits (emotions, gut feelings, various mental flaws) being allowed to run rampant in the thought processes, isntead of allowing true actual ice-cold reason and logic do the job.

    Emotion - psychochemical reactions, mostly.

    Miracle - doesn't exist

    That was easy.

    If science proves that we don't have a creator, why don't we worship science instead?
    Some of us do. :)

    If we don't have a creator, then why do we ask why, if everything is proven by science?
    A psychological flaw in our evolved intelligence; we mistakenly ask "why" question where they do not apply.

    "Why" questions are about the intent of other pseudo-intelligent beings such as ourselves. "Why" does not apply cosmologically, and is a meaningless question. Basically, most of us are too "dumb" (or to used to think along old tracks) to realize this.

    If science is so powerful, let's make a human without cloning anything and just use science, nothing else, but to make one, hum?
    Were not there yet.

    Stay tuned, tho.

    Won't be surprising if we find out that in the end, we are our own origin (some clever experiment gone horribly wrong goes back in time and creates the universe; I actually wrote a short story on that once, but it's in Swedish, and on paper, unfortunately, so I cannot share it with ya.)

    /Z
  7. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    ^Couldn't have said it better myself.
  8. mariel_rose Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2003
    MasterZap-if we are formed by evolution, why hasn't it leaped forward yet or is the mutant gene just an idea someone decided to make up?

    And if you say that evolution gave the birds intelligence, why didn't it come sooner?

    If non-intelligent dust particles banged into each other and made a planet, how did the dust particles get there?

    These questions are for you, not me; I would like for you to answer them, that is unless you can't, that you don't know how.

    Um, if there isn't a creator, and we know that science proves that there isn't one, why are we debating on the subject?

    The question is if there isn't a creator as you say science says why are we questioning the all-powerful science?

    If some of you worship science, when did it come into being? How do you know that science isn't flawed? How do you know that what you say is correct?

    If the question of why is meaningless, why do we search for intelligent life outside of our solar system? Look at the stars at night and wonder how they got there? The birds, the weather, isn't science the pursuit of asking the question why? Why does the stars only come out at night, why don't cows don't drive, etc.

    If we don't have the power to make a human from just the knowledge we have now, why are you alive then? Isn't science big enough to cast away evolutionary means to procreate? If we come from apes why do we use the word creation at all? Shouldn?t we get rid of it if it?s not right?

    If we come from apes, why is there a gap in the time line? What is time? If the question why is meaningless, how about what, when, how? Shouldn't they be erase too?

    questions, comments and I would like to read your story.
  9. MasterZap Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2002
    star 4
    Okay, let it be noted, by moderators etc, I was asked these questions, with a direct demand to reply.

    MasterZap-if we are formed by evolution, why hasn't it leaped forward yet
    Simply because it hasn't. (You are asking "why" again, about an event that happens seldom, which is a meaningless question)

    And if you say that evolution gave the birds intelligence, why didn't it come sooner?
    Because it didn't. See above.

    If non-intelligent dust particles banged into each other and made a planet, how did the dust particles get there?
    From dust?

    These questions are for you, not me; I would like for you to answer them, that is unless you can't, that you don't know how.
    Okay, you specifically asked, I will, specifically, answer. Moderator be noted, I have been specifically told to answer these questions, and I will. I will try to be kind, but it is not easy.

    Um, if there isn't a creator, and we know that science proves that there isn't one, why are we debating on the subject?
    Because some people have not understood this. These people are debating the subject.

    The question is if there isn't a creator as you say science says why are we questioning the all-powerful science?
    Because some people have not understood this. These people are debating the subject.

    If some of you worship science, when did it come into being?
    The day Logic was discovered. Science is just applied Logic.


    How do you know that science isn't flawed?
    It's an application of Logic. I agree, Logic is potentially flawed (we cannot, ultimately, know) but it got us to the moon, and has nearly cured Cancer, so it's got a good track record so far.

    I.e. the method is logically sound. If Logic isn't flawed (and has shown no indication of being flawed) that means the method is sound. Remember, Science is a method, not a thing. The stuff Science "knows" is steadily evolveing, and Science is testing itself every day.

    How do you know that what you say is correct?
    It fits all observations.

    If the question of why is meaningless, why do we search for intelligent life outside of our solar system?
    Uh, what? What does one thing have to do with the other?

    Look at the stars at night and wonder how they got there?
    Whats wrong with that? That is a "how" question. Nothing wrong with those. "How" questions asks for a simple process of how something occured. But "why" asks for the *reason* it occured, and that is meaningless, because *reason* deal with *intent* and presupposes an intent behind it (and an intentor, i.e. "God").

    The birds, the weather, isn't science the pursuit of asking the question why?
    Nope, it's the process of asking HOW.

    Science doesn't deal with "why" at all. "Why" is only meaningful when dealing with intent.

    Why does the stars only come out at night
    As I said in other threads, sometimes the WORD "why" is used in a question (in a pure linguistic way) when the question technically is a how question.

    What you REALLY are asking is "what is the process that causes the stars only to be visible at night", i.e. "how does the stars appear at night and disappear during the day".

    If we don't have the power to make a human from just the knowledge we have now, why are you alive then?
    Eh.... huh? I do not need to knoweledge of cellular replication to live. That handles itself nicely, thank you. Whats the point of this question!?

    Isn't science big enough to cast away evolutionary means to procreate?
    Not quite yet no. Stay tuned.

    If we come from apes why do we use the word creation at all? Shouldn?t we get rid of it if it?s not right?
    Yes, we should. But there is a stubborn bunch of people who doesn
  10. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    MasterZap

    I hope that fulfillment of this bible prophesy happens within your lifetime.

    Ezekiel
    38:23 especially the last part of the verse. :)
  11. MasterZap Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, that would help immensly.

    I *really* doubt it will, tho.

    /Z
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