A Message From the Mod Squad || March 3, 2004

Discussion in 'Communications' started by jedi-mind-trick, Mar 3, 2004.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. ArtificialStupidity Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2002
    star 3
    Thank you for the update, guys :)
  2. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    I like the idea of the three gents that are admins now ruling in unison.
    As long as there are three, they can always break a tie in a voting situation on any decision. It would add more balance.
  3. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Always three there are - no more, no less.

    I just had to say that.
  4. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    KK is actually the Public Relations admin, not the Communications admin as was stupidly stated in his promotions thread.

    Unless of course the position has changed it's focus, title and reason for existing? ?[face_plain]

    It's like calling Grilled-Sarlaac the IP checking admin or calling Gandolf the Updating Header Bar Contacts admin (although in all truth that's probably G-Sac's title too). Communicaions is part of the job of the PR Admin, not all of it.
  5. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    It has been the Communications moderator for quite some time. Since Communications is where we do 90% of our on-board PR, it's part and parcel of the title.

    And there was no need to slip the word "stupid" in there DA.
  6. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    I think it's a stupid mistake so I'll call it that.
    I didn't call you stupid Gandolf, just what I perceive as a mistake.
    When was the title and role changed?
    And what exactly changed about it?

    By naming someone in a special position to take care of thise forum yet encouraging every other mod to do the same, you're kind of negating the role entirely. You're placing a noteworthy empasis on one aspect of one persons job, for which they are granted no increased authority amongst their peers in MS. Now he handles PR. Now you handle the tech stuff. Now G-S keeps security tight. That's only difference between an admin and a mod, despite common misperceptions which are generally enouraged ;)
  7. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    That's only difference between an admin and a mod, despite common misperceptions which are generally enouraged

    That's how you perceive the differences to be. That isn?t necessary accurate.

    In the absence of the SC (for whatever reason), the other Administrators are acting SC, sharing authority between the three of them. If only two are online if a problem needing a SC decision comes up that?s needed pronto, then those two can make the decision. If only one is online in a situation that needs a SC judgment call, then that Administrator can act with the full authority of the SC if necessary. Ideally, they would just put a Band-Aid on the situation and let the SC deal with it in the morning. If, for example, a manager did something completely inappropriate, the other Administrator(s) could demote then and take whatever other steps were necessary to contain the problem until the SC came back in the morning.

    Finally, while every moderator is encouraged to participate in Communications, and every moderator is allowed to moderate in Communications as they see a need, they are not encouraged to moderate in Communications ? that?s the job of the Administrators. The intent of having a Communications administrator is to make sure that there is an Administrator who deals with Communications.


    The very first PM I received as an Administrator with regards to choosing another Administrator was from DarthSapient, and it included the following line: ?[We need] An internal promotion to administrator to help out with Comms.? So, the position that KnightWriter once held and that Kimball currently holds has been about Communications for quite some time.
  8. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    "In the absence of the SC (for whatever reason), the other Administrators are acting SC, sharing authority between the three of them."

    Then why is there a Head Admin at all?
    You 3 guys have it all wrapped up.
    Why bother?

    But then...why was the system of 3 admins leading the JC changed in the first place?
    Because too many decisions were being dragged out and nothing was getting done and each was at the other throat.

    Admins don't get to make demands of other mods in day to day activity.
    They don't say "In respect to this, we will now do this..."
    That whole "In the absence of the Head Admin" crap was meant as a method in extreme emergency, like the JC breaking down or a member of MS going rogue or the owner mass-demoting people on sight. Not for when the Head Admin is away for a couple of hours or a weekend and a decision needs to be made about important stuff like board policy. The admins do not run the boards when the Head Admin has his back turned. IMO that should be grounds for demotion as a total abuse of power. The 3 admins should get together in times of emergency to perform stop-gap measures. That's it. This whole "we run the joint when the SC isn't around" is a total fallacy that the last set of admins put in place. In doing so, you totally exclude the rest of MS from those decisions and let me tell you...it sorely pisses them off (which just quietly was another reason the 3 admin ruler was disbanded).

    So just don't do it in the future, k? :)

    "they are not encouraged to moderate in Communications ? that?s the job of the Administrators."

    hehe....do they know that?
    Do they know that you like to encourage this e-urban myth that admin level mods have more authority than managers or otherwise? ?[face_plain]
  9. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4
    SC = Slacker Council.

    Plz find a new acroynym for "Security Council". Let's not give Guns any ideas...


    UKS
  10. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    I thnk Gandy meant the Supreme Chancellor back there but I'll accept Security Council as well ;)
  11. Tabula Rasa Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    Heh...

    Big thanks to all the mods, managers, and admins we lost over all this bs.

    Cheers!
  12. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    "The very first PM I received as an Administrator with regards to choosing another Administrator was from DarthSapient, and it included the following line: ?[We need] An internal promotion to administrator to help out with Comms.?

    And what the **** are you talking about there, btw?
    Are you saying that Sape misworded a PM to you and it became instant policy?
    Are you insano delirious or something similar?
    Fairly large changes to important administrative roles which have been in place for some considerable time don't change with one poorly worded private message and the assumptions that follow, chief.

    So like I said, the PR Admin does take care of Comms to a degree. I don't dispute it. But now you're saying that other mods are discouraged from properly participating in this forum because you seem to think there's a JC caste system where admins should mod and managers/mods should not. Not moderating equally discourages a sense of equality in your collegues (or your lessers, as it may be) and makes everyone think you must be right. When the truth is that you're actually quite wrong about the level of authority invested in the 3 admins here at the JC.

    And we don't call you the "Changes Board Theme Colours" admin.
    But we might from now on ;)
  13. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    So like I said, the PR Admin does take care of Comms to a degree. I don't dispute it. But now you're saying that other mods are discouraged from properly participating in this forum because you seem to think there's a JC caste system where admins should mod and managers/mods should not. Not moderating equally discourages a sense of equality in your collegues (or your lessers, as it may be) and makes everyone think you must be right. When the truth is that you're actually quite wrong about the level of authority invested in the 3 admins here at the JC.

    Here you are wrong. The administrators act as the dedicated moderators in Comms. The does not mean that other moderators cannot moderate in Comms, only that they should only do so when one of the administrators is not available.

    Also, for as long as I have been a part of the Administration, my new position has been referred to interchangeably as the Communications Admin and the PR Admin.

    Finally, has it ever occurred to you that the JC does not run the way that you think it should be run, and that you are not the one who decides how it should be run? You aren't in charge of how we operate, and you should not be telling us that we are wrong about how it does operate.

    Kimball Kinnison
  14. MaulsWoman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 7
    I am very sorry about this. :(
  15. Falcon Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2002
    star 8
    Thanks for the update guys :)

    I'm sorry to see this happen, but what can you do now? Philp has made his decision and we either accept his proposal or not accept.

    Even though no one agrees to this theres nothing left to say except maybe do a petition and sign it to show Wise we're serious about this new rule. I think of any chances of him taking it seriously after the show of display by users, that chance of having a petition jumped the shark last week.

  16. Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 6
    What difference does it make if he's called the Comms admin or the PR admin? It is pretty much the same thing. So the name is different, big deal.
  17. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    You aren't in charge of how we operate, and you should not be telling us that we are wrong about how it does operate.


    So allowing Sapient to advise you not to promote any new Moderators during the recent fiasco was ok, but DA giving advice is not?
  18. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    DA...

    re: Three admins functioning in place of the Head Admin.

    I've always been of the mind that we should be slightly more "corporate oriented," in the fact that we've got lots and lots of customers (users) and some amount of staff (mods) and we need one person who can, when push comes to shove, be the final arbiter of decisions. It just makes sense, from both an efficiency standpoint AND a bureaucratic standpoint.

    To that end, I've also advocated that, when the Grand Poobah knows he/she/it will be away for an extended period of time, they appoint an "OIC" (Officer-in-charge) who will fill the role in the absence of the Big Cheese. That way, there's still that "final authority," rather than a "decision by committee" approach which always seems to stall here.
  19. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    We've never been through something like this before. It's easy to play armchair moderator. In hindsight, it's easy to make all the right calls. But when you're going through it and trying to do your part to keep things together, you do what you think is best and hope for the best.
  20. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    So allowing Sapient to advise you not to promote any new Moderators during the recent fiasco was ok, but DA giving advice is not?

    The difference is that DA was trying to tell us how things should be run, and saying that we are doing them wrong, even though that is how they have been handled the entire time I have been in the administration (and for what seems to be even longer than that). Sapient's advice was coming from the recent head admin and was actually echoing his advice from the MS before he was demoted.

    Additionally, Sapient's comment was phrased as more of a suggestion. DA's was instead telling us we were doing it wrong (phrased more as a statement of fact). The way things are phrased can make a very big difference.

    Kimball Kinnison
  21. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    DA, your post contained a not-so-cleverly disguised swear word, flaming, and baiting. That?s more than enough grounds for a ban. See you in a week or three. :)
  22. darth_paul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    For a minute, I thought Raven had just banned himself for swearing and baiting.

    I like the idea of the three gents that are admins now ruling in unison.
    As long as there are three, they can always break a tie in a voting situation on any decision. It would add more balance.
    I would like to take a moment to point out that every triumvirate in history has been a catastrophic failure. ;)

    -Paul
  23. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Sape, yellow never looked so good on ya ;)
  24. Private-Panic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2003
    star 1
    Boring...it's a Star Wars message board unplug from the net and go outside.
  25. Mitt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 1999
    star 6
    How I long for the days when the admins work was just mysterious and it wasn't even clear that they talked to each other.
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