Lit A more perfect union? The Official Galactic Federation Triumvirate Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    This thread is dedicated to @GrandAdmiralJello, @Havac, and the handful of other folks like us that are interested in discussing galactic governments. [:D]

    The Galactic Federation Triumvirate. Formed in 138 ABY in the aftermath of the Second Imperial Civil War/Second Rebellion, it is composed of the Jedi Order, Imperial Court, and Galactic Alliance. Led by Triumvirs Marasiah Fel, Gar Stazi, and K'kruhk, this is new government faces the arduous task of rebuilding a galaxy devastated by Darth Krayt's reign of terror. Like prior galactic governments, it's seat of power is Coruscant. It faces a galaxy tired of war and suspicious of it's motives.

    The goal of this thread is discuss, speculate, and hopefully add to what we know about the Galactic Federation Triumvirate. For starters, I am eager to learn about the following questions:
    • What sort of government is the Galactic Federation Triumvirate?
    • Did the Galactic Alliance and Fel Empire cease to exist, or is this new government a coalition of the two galactic powers?
    • What is the exact role of the Jedi Order in the new government?
    • Is there a restored Galactic Senate?
    • What sort of membership does it have?
    • What sort of relations does the new government have with minor powers like the Hutts, Chiss, and Hapans?
    • What other major restoration projects has the new government undertaken?
    It has been nearly a decade (OOU) since we had a major new government that we know little to nothing about. It is also the first time the we have a genuine unity between the two opposing views of galactic government for the greater good.

    Let the stars sing! Let the planets shout! Let the discussion about the Galactic Federation Triumvirate begin!

    --Adm. Nick
    Last edited by AdmiralNick22, Mar 21, 2013
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  2. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  3. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    There are times I hate you. :p

    --Adm. Nick
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  4. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  5. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    But to be serious, the big question I have at this point is, to what extent did Krayt replace existing GA institutions when he took over? John and Jan never really dwelled on the bureaucracy all that much, so I just sort of figured the GA was still the GA, except with Fel, then Krayt, at the top--in which case, the Triumvirate would still basically be the GA on the ground level, the same way the original Empire was still the Old Republic at first, but with Stormtroopers.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Mar 21, 2013
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  6. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Well, in Legacy #8, Moff Calixte mentioned that the GA's bureaucracy would remain intact, which itself was presumably a carry over from the New Republic, which carried over from the Empire, which carried over from the Republic. I have always been of the opinion that the galaxy's bureaucracy weathered each change in government, as no new power would have the time, resources, or energy to rebuild institutions that kept the galaxy running for 25,000 years.

    --Adm. Nick
  7. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I agree--but then, what's so different about the Triumvirate all of a sudden? It's the same government that's always been there, but following the whims of three people instead of one; plus or minus a senate.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Mar 21, 2013
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    lol Nick, your enthusiasm is so adorable :p

    Triumvirate is, of course, a slightly sexist term since Her Imperial Majesty is not a vir. But if the empress shan't object, then neither shall I.

    What sort of government is the Galactic Federation Triumvirate?

    Yeah, what sort of subsidiary institutions are there? Is the government a triarchy (this seems likeliest -- since it seems a decision among the three is all that is needed to effectuate a policy) or is the triumvirate merely an executive body?

    Did the Galactic Alliance and Fel Empire cease to exist, or is this new government a coalition of the two galactic powers?

    It feels like the former, although HIM is still addressed as an empress. However, the stormtroopers seemed to be the only people there protecting the triumvirs. Jedi probably don't need bodyguards, but Stazi seemed perfectly fine with them there as his guards as well. I might have just missed the presence of any GA guards.

    What is the exact role of the Jedi Order in the new government?

    Yeah, it seems IK are perfectly fine as emissaries of the government and continue to serve the throne. Do Jedi play a similar role, as they did under the post-Ruusan Old Republic?
  9. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

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    My most pressing question regarding the galactic government and bureaucracy.

    What is the current status of BoSS?
  10. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Picking up on something from the main Legacy #1 thread...

    One, I think I'm gonna need some proof regarding that final statement. Two...I dunno, I'm not convinced the Order is technically a religion when Force use is a demonstrable, quantifiable skill in the GFFA. You can argue whether Mastery makes one qualified to run the galaxy, sure, but I don't know that religion is a sufficient real-world analogue for what they are. Yes, Tarkin calls it one, but he's A) speaking about a group of people that is functionally extinct and B) one of the people who most stand to benefit from the sidelining of the Force in galactic politics.

    Imagine a society that reveres plumbing. The plumbers' union is therefore one of the most powerful and long-standing organizations in existence, and over the centuries, a bunch of dogma accumulates on precisely how to unclog a toilet, and on the exact reasons that copper pipes are better than lead pipes. Eventually, the union becomes so powerful that the guy running it gets a seat at the table at the top of the government. If I'm Tarkin, and I'm in the minority who think plumbing isn't really that big of a deal, I can roll my eyes at that all I want--but right or wrong, that guy is there because he's a kick-ass plumber, and society has decided that plumbing skills are important to leadership. Which strikes me as different from a theocracy.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Mar 21, 2013
  11. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    The Legacy comics made it clear (in the flashback issue) that neither Fel nor Krayt created a new Empire; the former simply placed himself on top of the existing structure and replaced everyone with loyalists, junta-style, then the latter kicked him off the throne and took a seat. And honestly, Krayt seems pretty ineffective -- which makes sense, given that the guy is a smelly Tusken-Vong invalid.

    But the Triumvirate? What's so different about the Imperials participating in the government? Weren't they part of the Galactic Alliance? Wasn't Daala an Imperial Head of State of the Galactic Alliance? Wasn't Pellaeon the Imperial leader of the Galactic Alliance military? So, how is Krayt's government and this Triumvirate a different government? The only difference appears to be that the Jedi seem to have entered politics (under %*^&! K'Kruhk no less :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ) and that, as GrandAdmiralJello pointed out, the "Empress" seems to be, legally, a man. Do they really suggest that the powers of the Senate have been placed in the hands of an unpredictable guerrilla fighter, a spoiled princess barely of drinking age, and some musky tundra specimen that should have been dead since freakin' Acts of War? That is ridiculous, and I hope it's not the case.
    Last edited by Starkeiller, Mar 21, 2013
  12. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Religion and faith are two different things. Perhaps you're used to viewing it through the lens of Christianity, but religion is at root a set of ritual beliefs organized around spirituality. Anthropologists may have a more precise formulation, but this will do for casual discussion. Religion can be empirical: Roman religion was set around observation of signs and circumstances. For them, religion was demonstrable. Similarly, even early Christianity was based on portents and miracles. These are demonstrable things. I think you've drawn a dichotomy here that doesn't actually exist: the fact that the Force exists and can be proven to exist doesn't make the Jedi Order any less religious than a religion that can prove to its faithful that its god exists through the use of miracles.

    Plumbing is a technique, not a spiritual thing. Jedi teachings have a philosophical and spiritual aspect to them: they are not merely technical, and knowledge of the Force is not a scientific endeavor. There's a reason the Jedi headquarters is called a temple. Out of universe, Jedi philosophy was based on real-world religions and philosophies both eastern and western. You cannot simply reduce the Force to the technical. I suppose someone who's first experience with the films was the special edition might think so, but... :p

    edit: I'm going out for the evening, but I've gotta respond to the above post later on and defend the honor of the Galactic Empress...
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Mar 21, 2013
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  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    In the ANH novel it speaks of "Jedi scientists" and mentions that even they don't understand the Force fully.

    "Sometimes there is as much magic as science in our explanations of the Force. Yet what is a magician but a practicing theorist?"
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Mar 21, 2013
  14. Dawud786 Force Ghost

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    If you're going to classify the Jedi as theocrats when in government, you have to also classify the Felpire as theocratic. After all, the Imperial Knighthood has the authority to depose the monarch if the monarch strays from the light side of the Force. Their mandate is to serve the will of the Force, as embodied in the monarch. When the monarch no longer serves the will of the Force, they are to be deposed. Hence the death of Emperor Fel at the hands of Antares Draco.

    The First Galactic Empire is also a theocracy, given that everything Palpatine did was driven by the dark side of the Force, his closest associate was his Sith apprentice, and he had a slew of dark side devotees working for him in very powerful positions in his government. If anything, the High Human Culture and secular aspects we see in the likes of Tarkin are simply window dressing to cover the reality... and keep useful dupes like Tarkin et al in lock step.
    Last edited by Dawud786, Mar 21, 2013
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

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  16. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    As GrandAdmiralJello explained, religion was originally both demonstrable and quantifiable. That belief has anything to do with it is a specious modern idea.

    And if the Jedi claim that they are in the government as interpreters of the will of the Force, then I guess that is a theocracy. If they're in the government to govern, then they just need to be purged once more. [face_devil]
  17. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Well, in the prior Triumvirate, it was solely officials of the Galactic Alliance. This is the first Triumvirate to combine Alliance and Imperial leadership into one body. And, based on the limited information we currently have, there is a high possibility that the GA and Fel Empire cease to exist as separate governments and have truly been unified into one new government.

    I suspect that a new Galactic Senate is almost certainly there, as that is the only effective way to make member worlds have their voices heard on governmental policy.

    What can I say? I am a sucker for galactic governments. Plus I am intrigued of the idea of a new government that potentially might be the best claim to be a sucessor in the spirit of the Galactic Republic.

    I am hoping it is merely the executive body, as a restored Senate make sense and, as I mentioned to Coop above, gives the various member worlds a voice and representation.

    I wonder if empress is used more as an honorific, kinda like folks did for Leia even after Alderaan was destroyed? Even if the Fel Empire's monarchy officially ceased to exist when new government was formed, I can see people still refering to Marasiah by her old title.

    As for bodyguards, I imagine that the new Triumvirate's military is a mix of GA and Imperial forces. The priority of the new government is rebuilding the galaxy, so focusing funding on a more uniform military is probably on the backburner.

    Throne? Don't make me quote K'kruhk and point out that this new government isn't an empire. :p

    --Adm. Nick
  18. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    From the look of it, a transitory one. ;) After all they are just 3 Rebel groups that allied and managed to oust the previous government, now they need to decide what to do with the country.
    They still look to be trying to decide what exactly they are. Though the Empress seems to see herself as the head of all of it (understandable it was her dad’s country before he got deposed), with Stazi and the Jedi just representing certain power groups within it.
    Special intrest group / moral guardians

    One should hope that would be the first thing Stazi demanded.
    Since Krayt was ousted by a oalition of worlds (tons of worlds sending out their PSFs to fight against his Sith) I would guess Sector and Sector parliaments, with those worlds that did not contributed getting sidelined.

    Properly pretty much the same as before, though the Hutts likely get favored treatment because they are the most magnificent beings in the galaxy... äh contributed to the Rebellion big times :p
    Worlds devastated by Krayt properly get priority.


    Per the Campaign guide he got Sector Moffs in place and crated or usurped planetary nobility as willing minions to keep their own people in line. So pretty much what Palpatine also did. One should assume the Moffs get deposed and the nobles driven out.

    No one even dares to interfere with them, so propely same old, same old ;)
  19. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

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    Too bad not much was mentioned regarding the political situation of the Galaxy in the first issue, though its always a pleasure to see her majesty

    I would think the triumvirate would need a unanimous decision to proceed with any major decisions affecting the galaxy. Then the Imperial and Galactic Alliance worlds would live by their own respective laws and systems of government. I hope the new Galactic Alliance would be an alliance of worlds that respects the sovereignty of their member worlds and does not interfere much with local politics, especially in the way of not limiting planetary militaries. Essential the Old Republic all over again, so I also think a Senate would exists, but it would represent both Imperial and GA worlds, as well as other lesser independent powers.
  20. Parnesius Jedi Grand Master

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    Presumably, although there is no loyalist Sith Imperial rump state, there would be a number of warlords (both ex-Sith Imperial moffs and admirals and renegade Sith) and independent worlds. Admiral Grail and Moff Fehlaaur'aitel'loro are possible representatives of the former class. That is to say, the Triumvirate would likely have at least a few openly declared enemies, albeit possibly very weak ones, not merely Nihl's Sith. Bearing in mind I base this on precisely no evidence, I would speculate that the galactic situation is somewhat akin to the depiction of the first few years of the First Empire in The Essential Guide to Warfare, or perhaps the Crimson Empire period; a poweful central government undergoing a great deal of transitional difficulties confronted by an array of highly varied remnents of the vanquished foe, some more fanatical that others, as well as opportunistic pirate fleets (the Black Sun might well see a resurgence in this time) mostly based in rimward sectors, as well as the handful of independent states.

    Maintaining peace, justice and up-to-date certification of every starship and pilot in the galaxy, as they have done for a thousand generations. And still woefully underused.

    But would you not agree that this is broadly similar to, for example, Roman Catholics being barred from succeeding to the Crown? Which is to say, might a superior characterisation of the Fel Dynasty and the Second Empire be that of a system possessing a certain degree of politically-motivated (it would be argued politically necessary) religious limitation, but that is otherwise secular?
  21. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    About the Felpire and theocracy:

    May I point to Egypt and Japan and say that monarchies can also be theocratic? Cause that is what they remind me of at the moment.

    As for the force being real: Well, I would like to point that one can have and use the force without following the jedi beliefs, so it isn't like their order is founded 100% on science here. There are plenty of other religions where the force plays an important part, and a handful of non-religious force using organizations like the Blazing Chain pirates.
  22. JackG Force Ghost

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    So the Galactic Senate represents the GA worlds and Imperial worlds under the Triumvirate? Awesome! That's what everyone expected the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances to do after Destiny's Way and TUF, but in reality it was just the NR renamed. The Galactic Federation Triumvirate truly has unified the galaxy, which is remarkable.
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    England, after Henry VIII declared himself Head of the Church of England.

    If only people who "believe the same things as the Jedi" can hold high office- then I could see it being a theocracy.

    Just allowing Jedi to run for office though- maybe not. It would be like saying "The USA becomes a theocracy the moment it allows ministers to run for office".
  24. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

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    Yeah Theocracy would be more have to have the Force and Follow the Jedi philosophy to get promoted.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Even with "hereditary Jedi Lords, Barons, etc" (as it was in the centuries immediately before the Ruusan Reformation 1000 years BBY)- is that the Jedi assuming governmental control- or the result of nobles marrying Jedi (before it was abolished) and having their children study with the Jedi, then return to take their positions?

    Aristocrats with powers- rather than theocrats?