"A New Jedi Order"

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Philosopher1701, Aug 12, 2005.

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  1. Philosopher1701 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    The last chapter in the ROTS novel is titled "A New Jedi Order". In the chapter, Yoda communicates to Qui-Gon Jinn, and they speak of the evolving and changing of the Order.

    When Yoda was battling Sidious, he suddenly discovered the true strength and weakness of the Sith. The Sith had studied the strengths and weaknesses of the Jedi for the last millenia, and through their studies they changed and evolved the Sith Order in such a way that they were finally prepared to attack the Jedi. The Jedi, however, hadn't changed at all. They trained themselves as the Jedi of old had. The Jedi from hundreds of years ago. The Jedi from another time. The Jedi Order was wrapped up in its old ways, and hadn't adapted to the changing climate. The Jedi were fighting the way they had during the last Sith War. This was the strength of the Sith. The Sith would use their new knowledge to crush the Jedi Order right under their noses. The Sith would use "war" itself as a tool against the Jedi. If the Jedi fought the war that the Sith designed, then the Sith would win, since "war" had become a tool of the dark. The Jedi would have to change their ways if they were to have any hope of destroying the Sith. Yoda admits this to himself. They would have to battle the Sith in a different way. They would have to let the Force take control of the situation.

    My questions are:

    What exactly do Yoda and Qui-Gon mean when they speak of the changing of the Jedi Order? What changes does the Order have to perform to adapt to the changing times? Do they have to become more conservative in their traditions, or more liberal? If so, what impact would this have on the Order?

    Also, does Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy fulfill the changes that Yoda had wished for? If so, what changes were made?
  2. the-super-truth Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2005
    1- I do not believe the Luke Skywalker order will be discussed for it is Epanded Universe only in my estimation

    2- What I believe Yoda and Qui-Gon are talking about revolves around a many things. Remember when Mace Windu says to Yoda in EP2 that it is time to reveal to the senate that their ability to use the force has diminished. They became to pre-occupied with old fashion ways that they got lost and were not looking at all corners. Yes I do believe the new order will allow Jedi to be more liberal. For one, why did Yoda let Luke go to Bespin??

    Now we have to relate the two subjects being
    1 Anakin fleeing to his mother due to seeing her in trouble
    2 Luke fleeing to his friends after seeing them in trouble

    Now one could say, Yoda should have learned from the mistake with Anakin and should have not let his mother go. But the thing is that Anakin was obviously attached to his mother and the council noted that, but would never let Anakin see his mother. Anakin's decent to the dark side was hit big time when his mother died. Now what would have been going through his mind? - the council never let him see his mother for it is the way of the Jedi, he wasnt powerfull enough to save her...this leading him to TRY save Padme.
    With Luke, he never had restrictions. He was always with his friends and would have no hateful emotions to Yoda, enless Yoda fully refused to let Luke go. By letting Luke go, he was letting him be free. Then he would trust Yoda and be able to console with Yoda. Look at Anakin, he could not tell anyone about his mother or else he would have hell to pay, the same with his dealings with Padme. Now he had to end up looking to Palpatine (in EP3 Palpatine says: Remember what you told about the sand people. So basically Anakin felt shut down and rebellious, like a teenager to their parents. But Luke felt free, so his heart was good.

    That was a weakness Palpatine saw, and was lucky for it too. Because of his evil Sith ways, he did know about Anakin and Padme's relations the whole time, thus knowing the Jedi's would expell Anankin, he lured him as his friend and trusting partner. He wanted to help save Padme while the council would have not, at least to Anankin's eyes.

    So you can somewhat already see why there had to be a New Jedi Order. Certain ways had to be changed. But personnally I believe the allowing of marriage to be a somewhat mistake, if that is what the future jedi order would be. That topic falls under a whole nother essay.
  3. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    for me the balancing of the force has to with both using intuition and reason.
    the jedi use reason, the sith their passion. to use the force you have to draw from both sides.
  4. DarthRavager Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2005
    in my opinion the "new jedi order" must learn to balance both sides of the force. i always interpreted bringing the force into balance was accomplished through elimination of the sith but also learning to control and understand both sides of the force.

    i felt that's what Luke represented in ROTJ. he had the black robes and used the force choke (typically a dark side maneuver) but still retained his morals and judgement.

    remember that Yoda and Obi-Wan do not think Luke would be capable of bringing back his father from the dark side, they insist that he must be killed. for me this is an indication that Luke has the ability to reform the jedi order. and with that power he will teach students to walk the fine line of both sides of the force.
  5. the-super-truth Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2005
    remember that Yoda and Obi-Wan do not think Luke would be capable of bringing back his father from the dark side, they insist that he must be killed. for me this is an indication that Luke has the ability to reform the jedi order. and with that power he will teach students to walk the fine line of both sides of the force.

    very good observation. I guess we don't realise it, but technikly Yoda and Obi-Wan turned to the dark side hahah, just joking. But they did go against the Jedi way by saying Luke had to kill Vader, did they not? Luke actually followed the Jedi way of not killing his farther or else he too would have joined the dark side.
  6. Philosopher1701 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Palpatine: If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects. Not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force.


    Uh....... look at how Palpatine turned out...... [face_thinking]
  7. Ogmios22188 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 4
    Actually, Yoda and Obi-Wan only tell Luke that he must [/i]confront[/i] Vader. They never say he must kill him.
  8. emporergerner Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2005
    star 4
    Darth Raveger said Luke uses force choke. When does he use this.
  9. Ogmios22188 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 4
    Against the Gamorrean guards he encounters when he first enters Jabba's Palace.
  10. arwen_sith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2005
    star 4
    He uses the force choke to enter the palace, yes, but unlike a Sith he knows when to stop. He doesn't kill the guards. That said, Vader doesn't kill everyone he chokes either.
  11. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    In fact, Vader only kills 3 people in the movies with the choke, that I can recall.

    ANH - Rebel trooper aboard the Tantive
    ESB - Admiral Ozzel
    ESB - Captain Needa

    Are there any more that actually die?
  12. Ogmios22188 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 4
    He doesn't even kill Captain Antilles with a Force choke.
  13. Estaban Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2005
    star 3
    Vader may have simply killed Motti if Tarkin hadn't ordered him to stop. What better way to convine the rest of the Death Star's brass that the Force isn't a joke than by using it to kill a heckler?

    Likewise if Obi Wan hadn't stepped in Anakin may have simply kept on choking Padme out of blind rage. It happens every day with "crimes of passion" in the real world.
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