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RPR Archive A New Old Star Wars Galaxy

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource Archive' started by Hammur-, Apr 27, 2008.

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  1. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Obi-wan... he's a Jedi Knight who had his fellows hunted down and killed by his pupil and the Empire. He's going to have negative opinions about the Empire. Obi-wan does not give a reason why the Empire or his pupil killed the Jedi, just that they did. So Obi-wan's opinion is biased and cannot be viewed as truth like an outsider's opinion could.

    Luke... he lives on the Outer Rim on a world harboring a criminal warlord with no Imperial presence before ANH. So he has good reason to hate the Empire, that does not mean the Empire is evil. It just means the Empire's influence either a) doesn't reach Tatooine (which it probably doesnt since the OR didnt reach it in PT) or b) Tatooine is too insignificant of a world to even bother with. Again like before Luke doesn't give his reasons why he hates the Empire. He just says he does but if you look at his surroundings you can see why he would.

    As for the Mofference on the DS, I never saw them (except Vader and Tarkin) as evil. I saw the officers as arrogant military officers with a new toy. Just like all Generals and Admirals tend to act like when they get a nice big boom stick to play with.



    On the Outer Rim where the Empire's influence is very little and the worlds and the people can do whatever they want, I can imagine the locals would hate the Empire if a criminal warlord was in control or ran free all over the place. And when the Empire exerted its influence in the Outer Rim I can imagine those people who were use to not having that presence are going to feel violated, oppressed, offended. Just like with any government that doesn't pay attention to its people for a long time and then suddenly does is going to be hated by some or loved by others.

    So out in the Outer Rim thats your mindset based on what we see with Tatooine in ANH. That is, however, not what the mindset is going to be for the galaxy as a whole. So yes, its a minorities point of view for now.
  2. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    I really need to rewatch ANH. As soon as I get the chance.

    Anyways, I would hesitate to say that the Empire is evil, though they certainly aren't a force for good. What we see in ANH is the Empire from the perspective of two entities: the Outer Rim and the Jedi. The Jedi resent the Empire for obvious reasons: the Empire was responsible for purge, which killed many Jedi and forced most of the rest into exile and/or hiding.

    The Outer Rim is something we haven't discussed yet, and its relationship with the Empire seems to resemble a frontier/colony type arrangement, though that probably even overstates the Empire's presence in the rim worlds. As Mitth pointed out, the Empire is foreign to Tatooine. If they have a presence there, it's a minor garrison with little real power. And I don't even know if they have that, or if the Empire only dropped by in search of the droids. However, the Empire does exert some influence over the Rim, and, as Mitth pointed out, a lot of people don't like it. And I imagine these people have reasons - it's not hard to envision them as a typical colonialist nation. I mean, Spain, Britain, and even the United States are all guilty of genocide of Native American peoples, enslavement of countless Africans, and the economic and political subjugation of countries on nearly every continent. And of course, the colonies feel like they've been raped and brutally murdered, which (in many cases) isn't all that unfair.

    But colonialism isn't the defining aspect of either of those three empires, and each has been responsible for quite a bit of good in the world (modern democracy, anyone? ;) ). Though the people in each homeland have benefited from the empire, only a small subset of the population was ever involved in colonial atrocities. And in many cases, these empires actually had pretty nice domestic policies. I imagine the Empire starts to look quite a bit nicer the closer you get to the core. Of course, that's not to say that they ever get too nice. But I imagine they certainly look a little bit more human. Out in the Rim, though, the Empire can be pretty awful. Aside from Vader indiscriminately choking people and Tarkin blowing up a planet (which yeah, was a definite misdeed), we also see (though never directly) Imperials lower down on the chain acting pretty ruthless in pursuit of goals. Look at the hunt for R2 and C-3PO: the guys in charge of that one pretty much went through and killed everybody in their path. Then again, it's not hard to find this sort of thing in modern empires - just look at Abu Ghraib.

    That said, Lucas did make a point to depict the Empire as evil. ANH is (more than any of the other films) a very well-defined struggle of good versus evil. Luke, Obi-Wan, and the Rebellion are our heroes; Vader and Tarkin are our villains. There's plenty of room in the middle. The obvious example is Han, though it isn't hard to extend some humanity to the Empire. I need to rewatch the mofference, but really the only two figures who seem totally inhuman are Vader and Tarkin.

    Another issue which we really haven't dealt with yet is the Jedi Purge and its moral implications. And this brings us towards an examination of the Empire as a modernizing force. The galaxy is in a state of transition - the decline of the Jedi is evidence of that. The Empire then, is (in a sense) a force of modernization, centralizing power and ushering out old ways (Jedi). Again with the parallels, but it's akin to Soviet modernization under Stalin, or the Meiji Restoration in Japan (which, mind you, forced the good 'ole yamabushi into hiding). And although some parties will resist change and some will be destroyed by change, the galaxy as a whole might benefit.

    So I guess my perspective is as follows: the Empire is a force of order in the universe, which is good in some ways and bad in others. And there are some very bad people on the side of order (guys like Tarkin), but there's also plenty of bad people who are more on the chaotic end of the spectrum (guys like Jabba and Greedo).
  3. NickLitYouAFlame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2007
    star 5
    The Empire's plan was to create Galactic peace, was it not? They just got pulled off that path by Sidious and Tarkin and such. Forgive me if I just restated what you guys have been iterating, because I haven't been paying much attention.
  4. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    If that was their intent, it really isn't what we see in the OT. Though you can argue that taking over the galaxy is a method of bring about peace - I think it's fair to say they're making the galaxy more stable.
  5. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    You really don't see anything in the OT except battles on the frontier against a rebellion. The movies are really a "he said she said". So who's opinion should you trust to discern the political view of an entire galaxy? Lucas? He's an outsider telling a story from Artoo's point of view who saw things from one side.

    Btw which version of the OT are we examining? The original or the digitally remastered?
  6. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    I feel like we should examine both, giving more credence to the original cut. The way I see it, the order of importance (for us, at least) should be as follows:

    1.) A New Hope (original version)
    2.) the original trilogy (original version)
    3.) the remastered trilogy
    4.) the prequel trilogy
    5.) the EU

    ANH should be the source of most of our material. Though I think we can still look at ESB and RotJ a little bit, there are elements from those films which I would like to cut. And I think we should largely ignore the prequel trilogy and the EU.

    Anyways, with regards to the Empire: ANH provides us a pretty decent view of what the Empire looked like from the galactic frontier. However, I think we've got plenty of freedom to determine how the Empire functions in the inner portions of the galaxy.
  7. NickLitYouAFlame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2007
    star 5
    Have you decided what year you are setting the game?
  8. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Probably in the aftermath of the Battle of Yavin.
  9. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    So are we now trying to shift gears to the Jedi purge and its ramifications?

    When you mentioned modernization, I thought of the French Revolution, can't remember which phase of it, but the immense secularization, where they even went so far as to get rid of months named after Roman gods. Perhaps this can be utilized.

    We know Vader betrayed and murdered the Jedi. We know Vader's pretty high up in the Empire. Therefore, given the information at hand, it's not too tough to say, even if we don't have any of the expressly stated information from the EU or other movies, that the Empire is responsible for the destruction of the Jedi.

    We also know Obi-Wan claims the Jedi were the Old Republic's guardians of peace and justice, and we know that Luke doesn't know the first thing about Jedi, the Force, Lightsabers, etc. All this information can be taken at a number of different angles. Does Luke represent a galactic everyman in his ignorance of Jedi nature, or is he just a scruffy nerf herder who's opinion on the matter is about as valid as a Bantha's? Were the Jedi the public Jedi we know from the PT and EU, or were they the secret society we've been discussing the possibility of them being?

    Nonetheless, we know Vader is an ex-Jedi serving the Empire. We know there were Jedi, but now there aren't. We know Jedi served some important purpose, hence their demise being the kickoff to the "Dark Times". Now, nature abhors a vacuum. Perhaps our Empire could have a legion of Imperial Jedi to fill the void left by the extinction of the Jedi. They've already got one. Perhaps he could have trained others. I especially like this if we can stick them into that secret society kinda role.

    When did the term "Dark Lord of the Sith" pop up? I thought it was around well before anyone knew what to do with it. Perhaps we could twist that a little.
  10. NickLitYouAFlame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2007
    star 5
    Dark Lord of the Sith has been around for a while, I think. But, most people didn't even know about Sith until Sidious took over. So, it's safe to surmise that we can twist that title anyway we please. As long as it conforms to Hammur?s concept, obviously.

    Would the Imperial Jedi not just be a legion of acolytes? If anything like that existed, I tend to think Vader would have avoided to term Jedi. But, would he establish a whole new affiliation?
  11. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    The French Revolution is another good example of the kind of modernization I'm talking about. There's secularization involved, and even the persecution of religious figures. These are common trends in global revolutions and modernizations. If we view the Empire as progressive (which I'm not saying it necessarily is), the destruction of the Jedi can be seen as a consequence of progress. Of course Obi-Wan refers to it as a 'Dark Age' - from his perspective, the galaxy is very much on the wrong track. Again, that's not to say the Empire is a bunch of good guys. But they aren't all bad, either.

    And my general train of thought with the Force is that traditional Jedi are on the decline. Conventional lightsaber combat is no longer feasible, when the training and effort is taken into consideration. However, I think the Force should still be a very active part of our galaxy; the biggest difference is that people will be harnessing the Force in different ways. Maybe elite troops will go through some limited Force training, to enhance their perception and aim. Maybe espionage agents will practice the art of the Jedi mind trick. Or commanders will develop abilities to use the Force to inspire their troops. These are all possibilities that sound pretty reasonable. However, I don't think full-scale Force training will be as common anymore. I think the Jedi will remain a scattered presence in the galaxy, with enough old Jedi like Obi-Wan training young Jedi like Luke. Dedicated Jedi will still be around in limited numbers on the outskirts of the galaxy. I think there would be uses for other, more official Force operatives. The Jedi skillset (mind tricks, stealth, perception) seems to lend itself well to ninja-style agents. I see that as an interesting possibility.
  12. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    "Lord of the Sith" was the full title of Darth Vader's character in ANH, even though it's never stated onscreen; I think it makes it either into the script or into Lucas's treatment, but it has no other mention onscreen during the OT at all. It's in the same league as Ewok -- household name, but never mentioned onscreen at all during ROTJ. (Marketing exercise anyone?)

    The extent of the "canon" nonuse of "Sith" generally can be illustrated by EU developments between the PT and the OT: Dark Horse Comics IIRC thought the Sith were a distinct species and did a couple of comics about it (around Exar Kun's time) where Yavin was one of their worlds. Timothy Zahn also had thought the Sith were a distinct species -- the Noghri originally were going to be the Sith -- but Lucas kayoed the idea.

    (As an aside, Lucas's "play cards close to his chest/no idea until writing the script" attitude IMHHO did a lot of damage to Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy. Zahn has always regretted that he knew nothing about the Kaminoans before he wrote the books and blundered into creating Spaarti cylinders, which then had to be retconned to make half of it fit. It even shows in "Outbound Flight" -- masterful as ol' Timmy is, you can just about hear his teeth grinding in frustration as he shoehorns the history of Outbound Flight into Lucas's vision of the period just before the Clone Wars broke out.)

    In other words, you're as free as a bird to make the Sith into a species, a robot, whatever. The Emperor is never a Sith Lord onscreen during the OT, and he's [/i]never[/i] a Darth, either.

    We know Vader betrayed and murdered the Jedi. We know Vader's pretty high up in the Empire. Therefore, given the information at hand, it's not too tough to say, even if we don't have any of the expressly stated information from the EU or other movies, that the Empire is responsible for the destruction of the Jedi.

    The precise wording Obi-Wan uses, again, is that Darth Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights." It's the Empire driving their elimination, not Darth Vader.

    Were the Jedi the public Jedi we know from the PT and EU, or were they the secret society we've been discussing the possibility of them being?

    I would argue a secret society. Consider this dialogue from the "mofference":

    "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes. Or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fortr-- *gasp choke cough*"
    "I find your lack of faith disturbing."

    And consider when Vader senses Obi-Wan's presence on the Death Star and reports it to Tarkin:

    "Surely he must be dead by now."
    "Don't underestimate the Force."
    "The Jedi are extinct; their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

    Now, to me those two pieces of dialogue, combined with Han Solo's recognition and dismissal of the Force, suggests that the Force was the religion of the Jedi, which was looked on with some amusement or disbelief at least in modern times. I would have thought that precluded the idea of public Jedi showing their powers overtly; as Vader rather succinctly shows, it's difficult to disbelieve a religion when somebody is using it to kill you - or toss things around, or use Jedi mind tricks, or whatever. So that leaves the Jedi Order as semi-mythical to the average citizen in the galaxy -- in other words, a secret society.

    Perhaps our Empire could have a legion of Imperial Jedi to fill the void left by the extinction of the Jedi. They've already got one. Perhaps he could have trained others. I especially like this if we
  13. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Perhaps our Empire could have a legion of Imperial Jedi to fill the void left by the extinction of the Jedi.

    Didnt Lucas had something like that planned for the OT but scrubbed it?

    The problem with the "Imperial Jedi" concept is Tarkin's assertion that Vader is all that's left of the Jedi religion. Now, Tarkin can't speak for the Jedi hiding out in the galaxy, but he can speak for officially-mandated bodies under the Empire, I would have thought. And he's quite confident in his assertion, so I would imagine that if "Imperial Jedi" do exist, they are a closely-guarded secret.

    Tarkin is a pompous know-it-all. Anyway... Imperial Jedi's religion could be far different from the "Jedi religion" that Tarkin refers too. The Imperial Jedi could be pretty much like the Imperial Knights where the Emperor is the center of their religion rather than the Force. In fact the Imperial Jedi/Knights could be treated very similar to Roman Praetorians. Elite guard who protect the Emperor and the interests of the Empire.



    Also, i suggest we look at the novelizations of the OT. Not the reprints, but the original versions. They give us a better insight into what Lucas wanted for Star Wars before he could digitally screw them up.
  14. Darth_Elu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2003
    star 6
    Basically, Mitth, you're saying the Crimson/Royal Guards could be the 'Imperial Knights'?

    There you go, if given the green light. Yes, yes. They're not shown on screen so potentially scrap...but if you're feeling lazy, you already got a uniform for them. The force-pikes can be kept or discarded however. Though I believe if there are Imperial Knights around, then they'll have lightsabers still...though more ceremonial than anything. Only used in emergency situations. The crafting of one is perhaps one of the final tests to become a member of that tiny sect.
  15. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    I was thinking, for the Imperial Jedi or "Sith", they would kind of be that class of character you see in every great work of cyberpunk/dystopian sci-fi: The Jackbooted Enforcer. They're the types of guys, like, for example, FFVII's Turks or the Judges of FF Tactics Advance, or the Gestapo. When you see them, you know the situation's too bad to trust normal cops with. You need to call in the specialists, leaving the regular cops dumbfounded and trembling with orders to get the Caf. Actually, Jac...Caedus' GAG is a pretty good example of what I'm thinking of, just with more force use and REBJ tactics.
  16. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Also, i suggest we look at the novelizations of the OT. Not the reprints, but the original versions. They give us a better insight into what Lucas wanted for Star Wars before he could digitally screw them up.

    Not a bad thought, if it was Lucas who wrote them or properly supervised them. As it is, back then the art of the movie novelisation hadn't gone much beyond "moneymaking device" in terms of the commitment film studios or directors showed to it. You can pretty much forget the ESB or ROTJ novelisations even in their original form; aside from including a scene or two that were deleted from the final cuts of the movies, they are just banal recitations of the script and add nothing to the universe at all. Compare that to Stover's ROTS, which actually works better than the movie does...

    Alan Dean Foster's ghostwritten novelisation of ANH (they gave Uncle George the author credit) is a bit better because it's actually written by a science fiction author instead of a hack, but again it suffers from a lack of input from Lucas if he gave a damn about it anyway. Obi-Wan Kenobi spouts a line that "even a duck has to be taught how to swim" (although rather amusingly Luke asks what a duck is), and we've got the questionable prologue that talks of the Emperor being hidden away from the people. I'm not at all convinced you can regard that as Lucas-designed or approved; remember he didn't have much of the creative control over the merchandising element of movies until after ANH was a hit.

    I was thinking, for the Imperial Jedi or "Sith", they would kind of be that class of character you see in every great work of cyberpunk/dystopian sci-fi: The Jackbooted Enforcer. They're the types of guys, like, for example, FFVII's Turks or the Judges of FF Tactics Advance, or the Gestapo. When you see them, you know the situation's too bad to trust normal cops with. You need to call in the specialists, leaving the regular cops dumbfounded and trembling with orders to get the Caf. Actually, Jac...Caedus' GAG is a pretty good example of what I'm thinking of, just with more force use and REBJ tactics.

    ...Or the Grammaton Cleric, perhaps...
  17. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    There is also in the concept art of a Stormtrooper with a lightsaber. So the idea was out there, just never used.
  18. NickLitYouAFlame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2007
    star 5
    That's an interesting idea. Not a stormtrooper with a lightsaber, because I thought we decided no lightsabers. It just got me thinking. Rather than entire squadrons of Force-users, disguised as regular troops, why not have regular stormtroopers with one Force-user. One skilled in decpetion, able to hide himself and able to boost the morale of his peers. It would improve the effectiveness of the squad, without garnering serious hostile interest.
  19. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Good point. Han's perspective is a very important one when we examine the state of the Force. You're right - the Force is a pretty sparse presence in the galaxy during the ANH era. Most of what's there is hidden. That doesn't limit us to Kenobi-types - we can still have our Force ninjas, if we want. And I think the other ideas still work, as long as we keep our limits strict. As in, maybe there's a regiment of elite Force soldiers out there, or maybe it's still in the development stage. But these are the best of the best, and they'd have to be pretty rare if we go by Han's statements. And the 'jackbooted enforcer' idea - that works out, I think; in some ways, Darth Vader plays that sort of role in ANH. I can see the Empire having maybe one elite unit of Force troopers, then maybe a handful of other top-caliber Force users on their side. Vader-level.

    Anyways, that upcoming post on the game's structure? You might just see it tonight.



    EDIT: All right, the idea is this. Episodic is one way to manage things, but I don't think it's the best way for this type of endeavor. Anyways, or problem right now is this: a focus too narrow limits the game's scope, but too broad a focus is difficult to manage, especially for a first-time GM. And if the one thread doesn't work out, the project sinks. So the solution is we take a specific scenario within our galaxy, and it can be as narrow as we like. But we keep the option for new threads open down the line, especially if the scope on the first one is more limited. Basically, the idea resembles episodic, except the episodes don't have to follow each other linearly - they don't have to be related much at all, really, just as long as they're in the same galaxy. Each thread that arises is essentially a window into this new old galaxy, a microcosm of the larger picture. This allows control over the individual thread while still presenting the opportunity to look at our galaxy from multiple angles. And of course, if this ever goes beyond one thread, I imagine we'll see substantial interaction between threads. Thus far, I haven't known exactly what to do with the Imperial core - it's an interesting angle, but one that wouldn't fit into an Outer Rim thread. The Imperial angle is a path I'm keen on exploring though, and it looks like there's some support for it. In a standard thread, this would be difficult to incorporate, as the Imperial officers seem to interact only indirectly with anybody who's actually from the Outer Rim. But this method can potentially allow for more of that indirect interaction. It also allows for a 'subplot' sort of thing - if this thing ever developed an overarching plot, we could still focus in the little stories that are relatively meaningless were we to look at this on a larger scale. I mean, maybe the occasional thing on a scale similar to that of Leá Monde.

    So the basic idea is flexibility. Keep a tight cohesive game, with a whole galaxy to expand into one way or another, if this g
  20. garindanslob Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2008
    What an interesting and novel idea. :cool:
  21. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Expect a couple specific game ideas in about eight to ten hours (probably). Though I might get sidetracked.
  22. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    I'm still looking for input on my general idea, but I feel like I should offer a couple specific game ideas which might be good starting points. The first would be a Firefly-esque setup similar to the one I mentioned above. Set up a few people on a ship and setup an overarching plot, wedge a few subplots in the middle, and we're good to go. It's relatively easy to control, and it allows us to travel around the galaxy, getting a decent view, even if we only get it from one perspective really.

    The other idea would focus around a frontier settlement. The basic scenario is that the Empire is increasing their presence on the planet, for one reason or another. Maybe they've got something they're investigating, like the droids, or maybe they've got a colonial interest. One scenario which sounds plausible and interesting is a resource conflict: essentially, somebody discovers the planet is rich in a particular resource, and the Empire decides to move into capitalize on it. Of course, many of the planet's inhabitants object; some resent the loss of autonomy, some just hate the Empire, and some just want a cut of the profits. I really like this idea, though it would involve more people and would probably be more difficult to run - in this instance, the support of a co-GM would be essential for me.

    Anyways, what does everyone think? About the general 'microcosm' idea and about the two ideas I've presented here?
  23. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    Hmmmm....interesting conundrum. The first option allows us to see a big chunk of the universe we're forging here, but doesn't really allow for too many people. The other is the exact opposite, it's open to a planet's worth of people, but only really shows us a tiny fraction of the universe.

    Personally, I think if we're trying to reinvent Star Wars based solely on what ANH gives us, I think it's best to show off as much of that as possible. The Firefly option gives us the chance to assemble an unlikely ragtag motley crue to cavort about the galaxy righting wrongs or filling their wallets or whathaveyou. It's a great setup to include a wide variety of characters, much like forming a party in a game of D&D. You get your rogue who loves his money and keeping his soft squishy parts out of harm's way. You have your suicidally brave Lancelots, your crazy old Jedi fossils, a wisecracking droid, probably a double-cross somewhere in there etc. etc. Plus, it lends itself so very well to episodic gaming. One episode you're helping repel pirates from a planet with deep pockets and no military, the next you're picking through the remains of the Death Star, the next you're doing something foolhardy, crazy, and undercover in the Imperial Capital. Shows off the Galaxy, allows for almost any character type, it definitely gets my vote.
  24. Darth_Elu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2003
    star 6
    Here's a thought to expand on the few people negative of the Firefly idea. Why not have two parties, two different ships on different aims and quests but cross? Or one is chasing down the other. Maybe, in fact, the second ship is full of Imperial loyalists or soldiers who are chasing the first ragtag group down or at least investigating them for some reason or another. The plot furthers it along. If the ragtag group comes across the Secretive Jedi it would lead the Imperials there as well. Maybe not.

    That would give some insight into the changes and new perspectives of the Empire into it, allow more people, and still see a big chunk of the NOG.
  25. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    "New Old Galaxy"?

    Just wanna check before I start using that acronym wrong and making a fool of myself.
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