Rumor A Perspective on How Rumours Play Out

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by AL, Oct 28, 2013.

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  1. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5
    There is a lot of speculation and conjecture on the boards (and online, in general) about Episode VII info. I would like to simply clear the air, and offer some perspective.

    The entirety of the information with regard to the creative direction of the new films that I have heard is the following redacted sentence. I know absolutely nothing else. I have heard nothing else.

    Arndt wanted the films to concentrate on one set of characters. JJ wanted to focus on another, already-established, person. KK and Lucas agreed. JJ won.

    This might be absolute and utter horsecrap. But both I and a number of other webmasters have heard this from multiple people. Nonetheless, this is still just a rumour. I would suggest everyone do this:

    Take it with a huge grain of salt. However, this summer, JJ's general unhappiness with the project was the worst kept secret in Hollywood.

    Right now, it is still incredibly early. The only reliable bits of info will be about casting. The rest will be kept under a very, very tight lid.

    Let's look at the three major leaks during the PT.

    AICN got a hold of the script for TPM in August 1998, when shooting was almost over. Harry got it from a guy called "Milo" in London. Designs from the film were leaked around that time, too.

    Two guys called Sith Interceptor and Scruffy Looken got hold of the AOTC script in September 2000. Production was under way.

    With SITH, the major leaked happened a bit earlier when Ewok Pudu got the script and a number of designs. However, even before that, AIC broke news about Grievous and the first action beat.

    I only mention all this because the major leaks will not happen until principal photography begins. Anything you hear until then is unverifiable.

    Personally, I will keep out of the spoiler game once production begins because I don't ant to be spoiled this time out. But I just wanted everyone to calm down. Myself included.
  2. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    I like your post, and your sentiment. But can I ask something?

    In other threads you tell us with absolute certainty that Palps is back as the main villain and Ewan is defo back. Now you're telling us to take it with a pinch of salt.

    Which is it? :p
  3. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Take it with a grain of salt. Here is the thing about Ewan. I got an email from someone that he was back as a force ghost earlier in the summer. I didn't buy it. I also tweeted it, too, adding "come up with better rumours if you are just making it up." Then LR confirmed it, and I had a chat with a number of other people, too.

    The rumour was this (again, grain of salt, etc): There were tests for a CG-enhanced Alec Guinness, and they looked like pants, apparently. So Ewan is back.
  4. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4

    Yeah, I was just playing really, I take it all with a massive chunk of salt. ;)
    (although I'm more than happy if it does turn out to be true regarding Ewan, and I said as much months ago and people said I was silly 8-})
    Last edited by StoneRiver, Oct 28, 2013
  5. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I'm glad it looked like pants. Bringing back Ewan always made more sense to me.
  6. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4
    I wonder if they'll age him up or just go for ROTS style Obi-Wan.

    Anyway, back on topic - Fair play to Al for putting this out there and stripping away the mystery around it all.
  7. TX-20 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 3
    I can see the conversation now:

    Luke: "Why did you change your appearance to your younger self now instead of 30 years ago?"
    Obi-Wan: "It's simple really, you see, SITH!"
    Obi-Wan points at something behind Luke and runs away
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  8. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    Yep. Thanks, @AL. Without the details, the mystery just makes it all seem very confusing or improbable. Conspiracies begin to bubble, and then the whole PT apology thing was the worse possible kind of enigmatic red meat for a forum like ours that can't stop arguing about the PT.
    Diggs likes this.
  9. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    Al - just a couple of things. I'm confused as to why Ardnt's focus within the story would differ from Lucas'? Can you expand?
    Also - does JJ want to focus on Luke's continued story? If that's the case I have no issue with that, because that's the route I'd like to see explored further throughout the ST.
  10. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    This is my personal theory: When, last year, they released that video and Lucas said "I came up with an idea for the sequel trilogy and a bunch of other movies," he was, if not full of crap, then definitely exaggerating. I think they must run things by him all the time, but he is nowhere near as involved in the creative aspects of the whole endeavour as we tend to think he is. Like I said, this is my personal theory.
  11. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4
    I'm with you on this, but again I have nothing concrete to back it up with.
  12. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5
    Apparently so. As to the nature of that concentration, and whether it involves his kids or something like that, I have no idea. But I think it's safe to assume that Luke will have the same sort of role that Ben had in the first film. It just makes sense. They are not going to make a film where a heavy-set middle-aged guy runs around with a flashlight in his hand.
  13. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    Lucas has interesting general ideas that can be executed by screenwriters in a number of ways. For example, I was surprised at how different the scenes were in the two ESB screenplays. Maybe he/they/KK give Arndt the freedom to develop specifics based off a general arc. Depending on the writer, certain emphasis's will be different, like looking through the eyes of the Solos rather than Luke/Skywalkers. But in both versions we might have the same villain and general conflict.
  14. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4
    That would be my guess. Also, it's not always clear how something will play out until you have a draft or two under the belt. So JJ may well have loved the overall story when he came onboard, but it was only further down the line that he felt the story needed to be playing out with Luke and the Skywalkers rather than Solos (100% my speculation).
    Last edited by Diggs, Oct 28, 2013
  15. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    That seems to run contrary to what is already in the public domain though. I don't expect that Lucas handed over War and Peace, but I'd imagine it to be (at the very least) a synopsis for VII, VIII and IX... incorporating characters, situations and events. If not, what are we expected to believe Arndt drafted his version off? It just seems a bit odd that Ardnt was so out of kilter with what Lucas, JJ and KK believe the thrust of the stories should be about.

    Well I'm happy that Luke is playing a prominent part... but again I'm just surprised that Ardnt was apparently so out of touch with what would be the views of Lucas, JJ, KK... and the fans (who seem to want Luke to be a major component).

    I think the emphasis being on Luke (his lineage) or Han/Leia's is absolutely fundamental to the overall piece. It's a different story otherwise. I'd be surprised if Ardnt had that 'freedom'... otherwise we might end up in a situation where they have to re-write... gulp. ;)
    Last edited by Darth PJ, Oct 28, 2013
  16. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I find the whole thing kind of surprising too, PJ. But you know, if all this is true, Arndt must have been confident in his vision, had the freedom to pursue it, and thought that it was true to what Lucas and KK wanted. And apparently it was a good screenplay/treatment, but just privileging the scoundrel aspect over the Skywalker aspect. I'm sure Luke was still there, but maybe we're flying around with Han and kids in the falcon more than we're with Luke on some frontier. Or maybe now we have a Skywalker kid instead of two Solos.

    Personally, this is why I usually favor a team effort with films like this, rather than just handing it all off to one person, who might end up picking something too idiosyncratic.
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  17. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4
    Well, if this clash is what happened, JJ would have had to win around KK and I assume GL too, so I'm not assuming the worst just yet. Maybe it was simply a case of everyone initially agreeing on the way forward, but that not quite panning out as hoped and JJ convincing them of a "better" approach. Major differences of opinion on how best to achieve an overall agreed vision are not uncommon at all.
    Last edited by Diggs, Oct 28, 2013
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  18. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    According to AL, JJ did win them over: "JJ wanted to focus on another, already-established, person [Luke]. KK and Lucas agreed. JJ won."

    I'm far from assuming the worst at this point. I think if this is true that JJ may have saved the ST from becoming a big Solo trilogy. I know you don't think the Chosen One prophecy is important to the ST, but to those of us who do, focusing on Luke rather than the Solos gives us a greater chance of some kind of resolution to these PT questions we have.

    But let's not debate the Chosen One here. ;)
    Last edited by Dra---, Oct 28, 2013
  19. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4
    Oh no, I think it's the right choice. Only reason I say "if" is just to keep the grain of salt in play.
  20. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    I'm struggling to think what type of writer would look at the Star Wars films, look at a blank piece of paper for the ST and think "I'm gonna expand on Han Solo's story". Of all the possible future scenarios that could play out when we hear Yoda's words "pass on what you have learnt" or see Luke light the funeral pyre of his father or smile knowingly at the triumvirate of force ghosts, Arndt thinks the potential for further stories is with Solo???
  21. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4
    Apparently, that wasn't it. Luke would still have been in the Old Ben role but it would have been a new generation of Solos facing whatever threat there is, not Skywalker leads. JJ apparently felt SW should be from the Skywalker POV. I don't think we're talking about Arndt deciding Han Solo being the lead of episode VII.
  22. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    Ha, ha. Yeah, if this is true, I can see why some people were calling it a PT apology tour. The whole point of choosing the Solo clan, I expect, would be to look at the GFFA through the eyes of the average person rather than the Jedi. Maybe Arndt was a big Han Solo or Millennium Falcon fan as a child, or maybe he just wanted to radically alter the tone from the PT (this would work). But I'm with you: I think you've got to have the primary POV begin with Luke and the Jedi. Having Han and the Solo kids around is enough for the "average" view. The ST would feel disconnected from the Saga (for me) if we're mainly cruising around in the Falcon with the Solos. Fun, yes, but not the main element.
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  23. Bob Octa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2013
    star 1
    So... do you folks think this means Luke will have his own kid(s)?
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  24. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4

    That's assuming of course that any Solo kids aren't learning to use the force.

    Interestingly, I'm sure @ManaByte made some comments about JJ wanting re-writes (taking out a lot of the Force Ghost stuff, etc) about a week or so before the Arndt news broke. Something else to toss on the speculation pyre.

    @Bob Octa - this is 100% a guess on my part, but I would think that's highly likely now. We've seen Luke wrestle with what happened to his father. Could be very interesting indeed to see him deal with a son or daughter of his own. And would play out fatherhood through a "good father" prism as opposed to the "bad father" prism that we got with Vader.

    If they want to keep that angle even fresher, make it a daughter rather than a son, but either would work. How would Luke handle his own kid facing up to the dark side for example. Would he find it easy to let go then?
    Last edited by Diggs, Oct 28, 2013
  25. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I imagine a few possibilities for the Solo clan and how that might work. I figure at least one of them is a Jedi or has Jedi powers, but maybe Han isn't interested in them being Jedi or the kid simply wants to follow in Han's footsteps. Even if they are a Jedi, they're probably still more down to earth than what we saw in the PT, and basically have Han's sort of attitude. One temptation might have been to reproduce what you see in ANH: Han, Luke (standing in for Old Ben), and the young Solo Jedi out on some mission together. Luke is still the mentor here, but of course you have Han adding his own POV in contrast to the Jedi. So you can still have the Force with the Solo clan, but the attitude and tone is much different than if it's Luke out somewhere with his own kid/Jedi.

    I imagine in the new draft, Luke is leading Sky-Solo kids and Jedi on a mission, or they're working on a mission on the orders of Luke (or against the orders of Luke!), while Han and Leia are working on military and political missions.

    I like the idea of Luke being in charge of things rather than just playing the Old Jedi on the Ship with the Solo clan.

    And yes, it sounds like JJ cut the force ghosts. But that means Palp might not be the villain, or that if he is, he's no longer a ghost. But what does that suggest about Obi-Wan? AL still thinks he's around, and the last time I checked: force ghost.

    Holocrons now?
    Last edited by Dra---, Oct 28, 2013
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