A question concerning titles for ex-managers/mods.

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Sith-Lord-Gunray, Jul 14, 2009.

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  1. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Or, with how the Cavaliers exited the playoffs this past season, a title for you can be 'Former Arena Mod in Witness Protection'.
  2. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    The cruellest limitation we should put on ex-mods' titles is the character limit that's left when you put " (ex-mod)" at the end of whatever the hell they want. Problem solved. What was it, 28 characters? 42? Somewhere in that range...
  3. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    Exactly. But I'd still support a level of formality with the choice of word - perhaps an approved list kept in R&A.

    Not so fast there, bucko. :p Seriously though, the leeway allowed for ex-mods to use a single colours (much appreciated, btw) doesn't really have anything to do with the titles that sit below those colours - which are the parts that provide the information.
  4. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    That's not really the point. What matters is that your status be clearly identified next to every post you make.

    Normal VIPs are easily identified by the color of their username and a title that clearly explains why they have their status (e.g. "Mafia Game Host", "TFN Staff", "LFL Author & Artist", etc.). Former moderators are less easily identified now that we allow them to use any font color and style they wish for their username, which is why it's important that we stick to the current title policy. It isn't just about catering to new users, but about keeping things clear for everyone who uses the boards.
  5. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    Okay, let's be blunt. Since they were allowed to apply a colour and style to their username, ex-mods are only less easily identifiable (compared to current mods) to morons, those who have never visited the JC, and animals who have no concept of the JC. The difference between former and current mods is, infact, blindingly obvious. Former mods are not in the header where it says 'Forum Moderators', they are not permitted full colours (which makes a huge difference to their visibility even compared to single colour former mods), and they are always identified by terms like 'ex-', 'former' and 'emeritus' - which are mostly self-explanatory. The general userbase is being taken for something of a collective dullard, is it not?

    You are concerned about maintaining a clear distinction between former and current mods, Grimby, but I'd say that anyone with even a modicum of common sense and - let's face it - eyes, could tell that Magistrate Emeritus is not the title of a current mod. And if there were any doubt, all the other clues mentioned above would lend only one conclusion. Consistency lies in the presence - or otherwise - of 'ex-', 'former' or 'emeritus'. Really, provided sensible rules are applied to custom titles, it all that's necessary.

    If one lost soul is confused, if they find themselves pondering whether the header really does contain all the forum mods, then I'd suspect they'd also be taxed by the colour coding on traffic lights - or more appropriately - what will and will not land you a ban.

    btw, I'm not particularly fussed about this decision either way - as I have no intention of changing my title - it's just the whole thing strikes me as a little pig-headed. A rule in existence because it's always been so, rather than because it makes particular sense, or carries any weight in the day-to-day soap opera of the JC.
  6. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    I get pm's all the time from confused users, and my title clearly says "Former Head Admin", and I gladly send them to someone who has to deal with them. I don't see that changing if I had a more whimsical title.
  7. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    I guess it truly depends on one's perspective, doesn't it Everton? You've been a regular on these boards for 6 years. You know the difference between a moderator, a VIP, and a former mod who has been granted VIP status and their choice of username color. And to you, common sense might say that only a "moron" wouldn't know the difference. But let's not assume that everyone who posts on these boards knows all of that. There are many users here who assume that anyone with a colored username is a moderator, and others who don't know the difference between a JC mod and an RSA.

    I'd say that's the complete opposite of my reasoning for wanting to keep the current policy. Back when we discussed (and ended up changing) the color policy for former moderators, we also discussed the title policy. The conclusion that was reached concerning titles was the same: since the policy on username colors is much more relaxed, it's important to stick with the title policy as it currently exists so that those users are clearly identified. That was the conclusion reached by our previous head admin, and I agree with it.
  8. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Former moderators are less easily identified now that we allow them to use any font color and style they wish for their username, which is why it's important that we stick to the current title policy.


    Or you could switch back to the old ex-mod/manager/admin VIP rule, and let them have any sort of custom title they want.
  9. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    Given the fact that there's already differences between RSA's and Mods, official VIPs, etc., I'd say that the factors for confusion are already in place. How many instances of confused users are we really talking? If a former mod has to say, "Sorry, I'm not going to be able to help you" every once in a while (which happens anyway -- title change or no), is it really that big of a deal? Especially if the "ex" or "former" is already in the title?
  10. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    My 2 cents on the issue: it should be of a more formal style. But then again, I also believe it should be so for active moderators.

    So really, if we're going to have a policy it should be the same for both. That is: current moderators have somewhere what their forum responsibility is, former have something that indicates they are a former staffer (ex-, former, emeritus, etc.); and either formal appendations/prefixes for both, or casual for both.
  11. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    Yeah, we can put anything in our titles we want, as long as there's mention of our forum somewhere in there. That's why I suggested giving the ex-mods the same freedom as long as they leave room for those six characters ("ex-mod") somewhere.

    Well, that and they shouldn't ask twice a day for a change. Say, give us the right to do it only when we feel like it. ;)



    (Or we could stop talking about it and sneak them in every now and again for an hour or two. I did that to game winners once or twice and I'm still here, aren't I? [face_whistling])
  12. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    I agree with consistency on titles for formers and current mods, too, Matt. Not so much for a "fairness" thing or to be a pain in the arse, but because the policy as it is is a little confusing. And I've always thought Fan Force and the MS should try to be as consistent on things like this as possible.
  13. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    You make it sound like my level of JC experience is required to identify a serving mod. This is quite plainly ridiculous.

    You don't need to have been here six years to get to grips with this stuff; nothing about the JC's setup is really so complex 99% of people wouldn't grasp it very quickly indeed. If the colours thing blitzes someone, then there are a multitude of other ways to identify a current mod. We don't need to assume that everyone who posts on the boards knows all that I know; all we need to assume is that people who sign up can be bothered to read titles, check headers and perhaps (in a tiny percentage of cases) not act their first impulse. And to be frank, I don't think that ensuring a really small number of people don't act contrary to that assumption is worth disallowing a title like Magistrate Emeritus. The walls won't fall. They won't even tremble.
  14. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    Perhaps the walls won't fall. But the floodgates will open. And then it will become my job to constantly argue with former mods over whether or not "Ex-Men is my favorite movie", "Jedi Mullet Emeritus", or "Quondam Quagmire" are appropriate titles. That's way too much of a hassle.

    If we want to open things up to being more consistent between former and current mods, and JC and FanForce rules, I still think former mods need to include their actual former position (moderator, manager, or admin) along with "Ex-", "Emeritus", etc.

  15. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    Well, I've said my bit - including the idea of an approved list of basic single-word regognised formal titles.
  16. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'd like to observe that the JC is still a shrinking community.

    Keep that in mind for whatever decision is made.
  17. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6

    Jedi Mullet Emeritus and Quondam Quagmire are good. Ex-Men is my favorite movie is stretching the length a bit. Perhaps limit it down from long sentences or just have character limits.

    THERE. DONE.

    In fact, you can even limit the days in which titles can be changed. Have a thread in comms where one day a month, title exchange is open. You miss that day then you have to wait for it to open again next month. Not all will change their titles and this way you're not dealing with it every day.

    It's not a floodgate Grimby. Your busy Head Admin schedule is not going to collapse because of this.
  18. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    No they're not. Neither of those titles I suggested make any sense, and they fail to accurately explain why the user having that title is a VIP. Which is exactly my point. If we open things up so that ex-mods can choose their own title, I guarantee we'll start seeing requests like those I suggested, and undoubtedly more that attempt to push the envelope even further. Soon, many titles won't really have anything to do with the user's status, and then the question will become "why can't we all just use whatever title we want?" At that point, we'll have lost the very purpose that titles were intended for: to clearly explain what your user status is next to every post you make.

    I'm not taking this stance just to be "pig-headed" or because I don't like changing policy. I'm taking this stance because I care about the purpose of titles and I don't want something that's more or less black and white to suddenly become a huge gray area and lose its meaning. Former mods already have a number of options to choose from when selecting a title, and it's been working out just fine.
  19. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    I care too, and I think you should really consider some of the points that have already been made by your user base.
  20. Tommy_Docherty Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2009
    star 2
    If people are going to be confused by fun titles for former mods, I'd imagine that they'd be confused by titles that include Emeritus or Quondam anyways. Why not let people have their bit fun?
  21. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Cos at the rate JCC are going through their mods, this time next year, everyone will have a title :p
  22. VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2004
    star 8
    All kidding aside, an approved list of titles doesn't seem like such a bad thing. There might still be confusion for some users, but I don't think that will change much with the titles. Some peope just don't really read carefully. :p I'm fine with my Emeritus thingie. [face_mischief]
  23. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I don't see any problem with the title "emeritus." If a user doesn't understand the term, they ought to look it up. I see no reason to dumb down the titles for the sake of someone who might be confused (people are bound to be confused regardless.)
  24. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    See, you are quite correct that neither of those titles are acceptable - or should be considered acceptable - but again you're using an extreme example to cover your whole point, all the while ignoring the middle ground. Those titles are are not serious and they don't use a formal term considered ex of power and authority.

    I'm not arguing for a party in ex-mods titles, or even the freedom that some others in this thread are perhaps advocating - merely a slackening from the rigid rules we have now.

    Not if you implement a strict and clear policy from the outset.

    There is cause to have some freedom in ex-mods titles, but there is absolutely no cause to allow things to slide so much that ex-mods titles become nonsensical and don't reflect what they once were to the community.
  25. Tommy_Docherty Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2009
    star 2
    'Former Football Manager'.
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