A question of Continuity: Who stole the Death Star Plans Bria Tharen or Kyle Katarn

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Galleon, Sep 23, 2001.

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  1. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Thanks Mav.

    That's true Bubba. I have a scan of the cover of Jedi Dawn, and that droid DOES have a striking resemblance to the Guardian droid seen in Galladinium's Fantastic Technology.
  2. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Hey Genghis, Valiento, I think it was one of you two who posted a fairly complete list a while back of who all gets the credit for the Death Star. Can we get that list again?
  3. The Cat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2000
    star 3
    You know, the whole crusade for the plans was for naught, if you think about it. So Bria and Kyle both stole the plans. Bria sent them to Leia, who then downloaded them into R2-D2. Yada yada yada, the Falcon gets captured, and BOOM! R2's on the Death Star anyway. He could have gotten the plans then and there. In fact, Leia says R2 gets "the complete technical readout," much better than the lousy plans. So Kyle delivers the plans to Mon Mothma, like it says in Dark Forces, and she says "Thanks, Kyle, but we've already got them."

  4. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    A slight problem in that theory. First, Leia stored the plans (aka technical readouts) in Artoo's databanks on board Tantive IV. Second, Artoo didn't download anything. He already knew what he was carrying and so he knew there was no need to do so. Besides, he was busy trying to gather data on where to go for everyone. He could have used the plans to get Obi-Wan to the tractor beam controls, but he need to first locate where on the Death Star they (Luke, Han, Cheiwe, Obi-wan, and the droids) were. It's not like he could call up the plans and say "Oh yeah, we're right here." And third, as I've already said, the plans in question were the technical readouts.
  5. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    I, like a lot of people, are confused. I recently discovered the...interesting Original Radio Drama of ANH (is it just me or does Leia sound like a 14-year-old half the time and do way too much heavy breathing the other half?) and according to that, the rebels found out about the Death Star from a wounded Rebel on Raltiir who absorbed the info under hypnotic imprint. Then the Rebels on Toprawa transmitted the plans to the Tantive IV while they were passing through that system, allegedly making repairs. Then Vader and the Devastator show up and they flee to Tatooine and the rest is history.

    In Interlude on Darknell, Garm Bel Iblis learns about it from Aach on Anchoron before his family gets killed. He then goes to Darknell to meet the contact, but the contact gets robbed by an old woman who suspects that whatever that datapack is, it's important. Eventually, they evade Imperial Intelligence and get the plans back.

    I've barely even heard of Kyle Katarn and got one chapter into the Paradise Snare before deciding it was a waste of my time, so WHICH IS RIGHT?!
  6. Arabwel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2001
    star 2
    On the fact that who designed the Death Star... In Rogue Planet, this guy who founded SIenar Fleet Systrems gets some serious credit....

    Ara
    (Completely confused, tired and nosy)
  7. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    All of them are right, and LFL has a big long theory.

    from, TOS databank:
    "A Rebel mercenary, Kyle Katarn, stole the Death Star plans from an Imperial data vault on Danuta. He transmitted these plans to Rebel spies in the Toprawa system. These plans were combined with similar technical data secured by Keyan Farlander to construct a full schematic of the Death Star. It was through the efforts of these Rebel heroes, and others, that a weakness was found in the Emperor's most prized weapon."

    There is at least 2-3 parts that had to be combined, Kyle Katarn's, Keyan Farlander's and bria tharen's.

    Anything you hear about toprawa, is connected with bria tharen's group.

    Anything about danuta, is kyle's, etc.

    but all were important to get the complete plans, or learn about the DS existence.

    Knight, I don't have a list handy, sorry, :-(.
  8. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    The Cat...
    "and BOOM! R2's on the Death Star anyway."

    Circular. The reason R2 was on the Death Star was because he had the stored plans. If Kyle and Bria didn't do their parts, then R2 wouldn't have the stored plans and the Tantive IV wouldn't have a reason to intercept the signal. If it never looked suspicious, then Vader would never have had a reason to intercept. If it never intercepted, then R2 and C3-P0 never would have jettisoned to Tatooine and met Luke Skywalker. R2 never would have tried to murder R5-D4. R2 never would have searched out Obi-Wan...

    For R2 to have been on the Death Star - he already needed to have the plans to begin with.

    Knight,

    I remember that. I'll see what I can dig up. I don't remember if I did it or someone else. :D
  9. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Quite right, Sturm. I hope I get the book or scans of it someday to find out.
  10. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    "R2 never would have tried to murder R5-D4."

    ROFL. R5-D4 willingly damaged himself so that Artoo could go with Threepio and Luke. He was smart, he knew Artoo's quest was more important than his self preservation. And he was a Jedi... thats what Jedi do. Die/get hurt so that the inocent don't have to. And they would've if the Death Star was stopped as fast as possible.

    :p
  11. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Wedge, High Canon source just under the movies, the ANH Radio Drama artoo sabotages r5-d4. It takes precedence over a comic that was meant to be comedy, and not really meant to be part of continuity, from several phrases within the same comic, and the later Infinnities marking.
  12. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    Okay okay. I take back my point about R5-D4. But that dosn't mean any of us is more right than anyone else about this. As shown by TOS:

    "According to the National Public Radio Dramatization of Star Wars, R2-D2 sabotaged R5-D4's motivator to ensure that it would break down. Galaxy Guide 1: A New Hope, a roleplaying game supplement, states that R5-D4 blew his own motivator so that Artoo and Threepio would not be separated. In Star Wars Tales, R5-D4 is actually a great forgotten Jedi named Skippy.

    You decide."

    Thats R5-D4's behind the scenes entry.
  13. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Also according to the databanks for the EU section:

    "Industrial Automaton cut one corner too many by the time they produced the unwarranted R5 addition to their otherwise successful astromech program. In an effort to cash in on the popularity of their line, they developed the R5 as an "economical" version of the R2, lacking many of the amenities that the more expensive model featured. Such cost cutting negatively affected the R5 personality matrix, and the finished droids often developed sullen and acerbic character traits. The product line was a failure, and Industrial Automaton attempted to recoup losses by reusing the R5 frame as part of their R2-AG4 and R4 agromech lines.

    R5-D4 was abandoned by many owners and switched hands over the course of long, miserable decades. The little droid became quite jealous of the newer, more popular models and made no secret of his spite.

    After being passed up by Owen Lars, R5-D4 was stolen from the Jawa sandcrawler by a mischievous Squib trader named Macemillian-winduarté. The trader sold the droid to Alliance historian Voren Na'al, who had the little red unit refurbished. He planted R5-D4 within the government offices of Mos Eisley, where the droid became a valuable source of intelligence data."

    Doesn't sound much like the jedi type to me, maybe dark jedi, ;), :D.
  14. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    The Jedi part of my earlier post was supposed to light anyway. :D
  15. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    I'm with ya' Wedge. I know in my heart that Voren Na'al has his very own Jedi Master to order around. :eek:
  16. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
  17. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I think we've pretty much covered the question of if there was an error or not here. So it would be nice to show some newbies that the Death Star really has a long list of folks involved in it's creation as well as getting the plans into the rebels hands.
  18. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Alright, Knight - you asked for it buddy... :D

    The majority of thanks/credit goes to Gizman (Big_Gizz) who created this. I thought it relevent that important passages from Soldier of the Empire find their way in there as well - as it alludes to many more adventures by many more unnamed characters. Also added some Soldier of the Empire info - Gizman had some events improperly placed. Of course, I didn;'t think a discussion of DS plans would be complete without mention of Rogue Planet either. Same goes with information added by Suburp which accounts for the X-Wing game and the obscure Tales of Mos Eisley Cantina story.

    How Were The Death Star Plans Stolen? (Rev.)
    (blue = Gizman, red=Genghis12, green=Suburp)

    This is a detail explanation of how were the Death Star Plans stolen, based of course in official material and not my speculation nor my theories. All this matter is actually well depicted in the following books:
    ·The Han Solo Trilogy: The Rebel Dawn
    ·Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire
    ·Star Wars: The National Public Radio Dramatization (NPRD)

    Rogue Planet
    ·Tales from the New Republic: Interlude at Darknell

    Tales of Mos Eisley Cantina
    X:Wing Game

    And it's also supported by the story of Admiral Ackbar in Steve Sansweet's Star Wars Encyclopedia, and Andy Mangels' The Essential Guide to the Characters which are also important in this matter, along with some other details given in different parts of the Encyclopedia, Dan Wallace's Guide to Planets and Moons and Bill Slavicsek's Guide to the Star Wars Universe 3rd Edition.
    There are no contradictions between them (as some people think), but you have to read them all to understand the whole thing, and because of the order and structure of these stories, it gets a little rough to picture it right. So this essay intends to summarize and clarify how this important event of the Star Wars saga happens:


    Rogue Planet (p. 69, 340): The Death Star mythology, of course starts off with the designer, Raithe Sienar in Rogue Planet. He has something of an entire preliminary design done, complete with holoCAD schematics and other robust details..."Months ago, coming at his craft from another angle-brutal and centralized strength-Sienar had begun work on the Expeditionary Battle Planetoid, whose design had so entranced Tarkin." He later passes this on to Tarkin who has the ultimate dream in the way of the Tarkin Doctrine and now has the power to back the doctrine up. Thus, the first person to ever "steal the Death Star Plans" was Tarkin himself..."Tarkin redeems himself before the Supreme Chancellor with secret plans for a moon-sized battle station. Tarkin claims credit for the design. Sienar does not dispute him; it is a brainchild he is eager to disown..." However, it will be many years before his pet project begins construction.

    -According to the Guide to Characters (page 2): When the Mon Calamari Ackbar was Grand Moff Tarkin's slave, "...Tarkin was always muttering about his new superweapon that would allow him to crush the Rebellion. As the Grand Moff was en route from the Governor's palace on Eriadu to the completed Death Star, his ship was attacked by rebels. Following a firefight with Admiral Motti's Star Destroyer, the Rebels escaped with Tarkin's servant, Ackbar." The same is stated in the Encyclopedia (page 2): "It was from Tarkin that Ackbar first heard rumblings of the rebellion - as well as veiled references to a new super weapon that would crush the rebels. Ackbar was rescued during a Rebel attempt to assassinate Tarkin..." After that Ackbar joined the Rebellion and told them about the existence of this new superweapon, so the Rebels began to investigate it.

    -According to the Encyclopedia, Dan Wallace's Guide to Planets and Moons and Bill Slavicsek's Guide to the Star Wars Universe: The Rebels decided to infiltrate Ralltir to found out more. They chose this planet because it was one of the R
  19. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    <<Wedge, High Canon source just under the movies, the ANH Radio Drama artoo sabotages r5-d4. It takes precedence over a comic that was meant to be comedy, and not really meant to be part of continuity, from several phrases within the same comic, and the later Infinnities marking. >>

    Well, the droid is is Skippy in Tales, a Jedi droid...He's Red in Galaxy Guide 1 - A New Hope, where he willingly breaks his motivator...and he's R5-D4 in the radio drama, where Artoo sabotages his circuits. They can all be combined, or you can believe what you prefer. ;)

    <<They sent raids after the Darknell situation to uncover more information - because Mon Mothma has detailed specs to show Katarn. They sent numerous raids, some successful, some not so successful to find out more. >>

    This ties into I think the 3rd battle in the game of X-wing - I think it's labeled "The Great Search". The Rebels had various missions to learn more about the Death Star.

    We also can't forget exactly the things that occur on this game...

    Apparently the way the plans got from the Cron Drift was when X-wing Blue 1, piloted by Biggs Darklighter, escaped an Imperial ambush and brought them to the Calamari Cruiser Independance. Then, Keyan Farlander helped in a mission to directly hand them over ( by hand ) from a shuttle that docks with Leia's Corvette, Tantive IV ( How this ties into the cutscene of her recieving the plans by comm, I do not know. Someone can work that out themselves. )

    Also, Farlander went on various missions to capture key leaders and designers of the Death Star Project. If I remember correctly, one has him jump into the Horuz system, where he is ambushed by some Assault Gunboats protecting the Imperial Corvettes that need to be destroyed or captured.

    Man, I really hate complicated continuity issues that are over dozens of games, novels and audio dramas...::sighs::

    :_|
  20. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Thanks Genghis. That really helps point out what I meant about the whole Death Star situation being a convulted ball of yarn, so to speak. Not only are there numerous threads dealing with how the rebels got a hold of the plans, but there are just as many, if not more, dealing with just who created it.
  21. Aldaric_Brandl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2000
    star 3
    You're all wrong.

    It was Bob the Turncoat Stormie who stole the plans.

    The Ballad of Bob the Turncoat Stormie (tune of the Addmas Family Theme)

    Bob the Turncoat Stormie,
    Pride of the Rebel Army,
    He drove the Empire barmy,
    Escaped without a scratch.

    Bob was a cunning devil,
    In money he did revel,
    'twas paid to him by Rebels,
    To lay the Empire low.

    chorus: Bob the Turncoat Stormie...

    Bob scouted out the floorplans,
    On paper he did draw them,
    Took care not to obscure them,
    And faxed 'em to Yavin!

    Chorus

    Bob swiftly then absconded,
    With money he had laundered,
    Oer escape routes he had pondered,
    A shuttle he did nick.

    Chorus

    Bob the Man of Leisure,
    He's living off his treasure,
    A carefree life of pleasure
    Twas smart to take the bribe.

    Bob the Turncoat Stormie
    Pride of the Rebel Army
    He drove the Empire barmy
    Corruption always pays!

    Thats the true story. The Republic cooked up all the nonsense about Kyle Katarn and Bria Tharen once they became a legitimate government and changed their views about corruption in government employees.
  22. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Storm Trooper Designation Beta Omega Beta(bob), was just kyle katarn's storm trooper code-number, ;).
  23. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    It's too bad that Bob may die in NJO HC4. :D

    (Aldaric - LOL! It was funny, but I really think you may have a little too much time on your hands. :D )
  24. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "It's too bad that Bob may die in NJO HC4."

    Ghengis, don't even joke, that Beta Omega Beta could die in HC4. I'd swear off star wars forever, :p. Let hope Lucasarts and only lucasarts keeps the rights to Beta Omega Beta, considering he's quite the lucrative character, with his line of FPS. I'd would like to see him return in game set in the NJO era, and beyond. Maybe even get to see his son.
  25. Aldaric_Brandl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2000
    star 3
    Of course I've got too much time on my hands. I'm doing 2 1/2 years of National Service for my country's armed forces. Ill-paid conscript NCOs always have the incentive and inventiveness to goof off :)

    Which is of course why Bob the Turncoat Stormie was so willing to betray the Empire.

    No but really...I just like writing.

    Does the Ballad of Bob the Turncoat Stormie count as FanFic?

    Bob...Son of Bob...Bob goes to Bespin...Bobbing for Vong...Bobstacles. I smell a series. Forget that pile of scrap paper...what was it called again...oh yes...the New Jedi Order. Buy the BOB CHRONICLES!
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