A question to Christians

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jabba_on_a_unicycle, Jan 7, 2005.

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  1. Jabba_on_a_unicycle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2005
    star 2
    I am not a Christian and neither is my fiancee (she is a witch) but we are always getting Christians trying to convert us. Why?

    Why cant everyone just be allowed to live their own way?

    Something that really annoys us, is that they will only pick on us because we are not attached to an organised religion. Why wont they go bother the local muslim or jew, why pick on us?

    I think the Pagan belief (even though im not part of it) is the best as they believe that everyone should be allowed to live their life in peace and dont believe in converting those who dont agree with them.

    I dont mean to offend anyone it's just this really strong issue for me.
  2. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    I have a feeling this thread will be closed down, maybe it can be reworded to bring in more of a discussion.

    I think the quick answer is that they feel that they're helping you. I don't see a problem with it as long as long as they do it respectfully, and I would hope the same for those that don't want that "help".
  3. im_posessed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2002
    star 3
    I am a Christian and this is a pet peeve of mine. Somehow, somewhere, someone got it in their heads that it is a Christian's responsibility to convert people. That's not true - it's our responsibility to tell people what we believe, but the choice is completely up to them.

    The reason for telling, that's simple. There's a story in the Bible about a blind man being healed, and he goes around telling people about it, saying simply "i was blind, but now I can see". That's the way most Christians feel, I was ____, and now I'm not, now things are better for whatever reason. The next step should be letting people make their own decision about it.

    Here's my way of looking at things. To go up to someone and completely tear down and destroy what they believe is basically spiritual rape - it's a violation in that it comes to a very intimate place without consent and destroys it, leaving the person in a very volnerable place. That's just horrible, and I do my absolute best to stay far far away from those situations. On the other hand, it is completely possible to talk about religion/spirituality without doing that, and that's the approch that should be taken.

    Look at Billy Grahm and his ministry. There is no forcing, no coersion, simply an offer that a person can take or leave.

    Yes, the people trying to "convert" you have a good heart about it, but I would say they're doing it wrong.
  4. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

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    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
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    Unless 8 of 10 people you meet are in your face, insisting that you must either accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior or go straight to hell, the vast majority of Christians are leaving you alone.

    I suggest that you ask your question directly of the people who are bothering you. Next time someone starts getting worked up about the fact that you aren't Christian, ask them why your beliefs upset them, and why they feel the need to change you.
  5. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    And just because they say they are Christians, does not mean that they are. I have had many a people approach me claiming to be Christian, when they are definitely not.
  6. Jabba_on_a_unicycle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2005
    star 2
    Love thy neighbour as thy self, that is something i wish people who preach, would practice. Sorry rant over ;)
  7. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I think the Christian history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.
  8. VoijaRisa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2002
    star 5
    I think the Christian history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.

    Perhaps next time they stop by I should grab my broadsword and ask how they'd like to listen quietly to my side for awhile instead of yelling at me about how my immortal soul is doomed.
  9. im_posessed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2002
    star 3
    I think the Christian history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.

    I agree, and honestly I hate that being a Christian associates me with the people who would do such a thing, in the same way that being a human associates me with monsters like Hitler and others.

    however, no one looks at all of humanity through eyes clouded by the acts of the few monsters, or even at all Germans that way (to make for an appropriate comparison), and yet the actions of some "christians" (not that the crusades were established by those in power (the popes, rulers etc. and not supported by the majority of Christians who were "compelled" (threatened) to participate) have clouded many people in the way that they look at the rest of christains.

    It's the same way Muslems were attated after the 9/11 tragety, regardless of the fact that they were just as horrifed at what happened and had no involvement whatso ever.

    It's a double standard - a people group, a government, an organization can have corrupt people within it and survive afterword, but a religion, for some reason, can not.
  10. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    I think that I understand where at least some of the Christians are coming from. They?re trying to convert you because they believe that if you?re not Christian your afterlife is going to be rather uncomfortable to say the least. They?re aggressive in trying to make converts because they?re trying to save peoples lives. It?s not much different than trying to rescue people from burnings buildings or sinking ships, except that the danger to the Christian is minimal and the danger to the person in need of rescuing is far greater than the physical.

    They?re trying to convert you for your own good.
  11. darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2000
    star 5
    I cannot convert you.

    You have to do that yourself.

    All I can do is show you what is taught in the Bible.
    I wouldn't force it on anyone and I do not force bible studies on anyone.

    I don't wave a watch in front of your face and make you study the bible, and make you become a Christian. [face_hypnotized]

    If you want to learn, I'd me more than happy to show you and let you make your own choice whether to believe it or not.

    If not I'm happy to go quietly on my way! [face_whistling]

  12. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    Matt 28: 18-20
    And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
    19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
    20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."


    Mark 16: 15-16
    : And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
    16: He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


    Acts 1:8
    But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth."
  13. Green_Jedi33 Jedi Master

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    Nov 9, 2004
    star 3
  14. im_posessed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2002
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    Jediflyer -
    could you give some context/commentary to those verses? It might help with discussion
  15. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
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    Those were Jesus' last commandments to his disciples before he disappeared into heaven.

  16. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    could you give some context/commentary to those verses? It might help with discussion

    All three describe Christ's last commandment to his followers before his ascension into heaven (After his ressurrection).

    Kimball Kinnison
  17. darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2000
    star 5
    They are the reason people preach and try and "convert" you!
  18. im_posessed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2002
    star 3
    I knew the context (i'm a christian and studying to be a pastor) but I know there are some people here who wouldn't
  19. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    OWN wrote: I think the Christian history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.

    I've always been a little unclear on why "the Christians" were the ones who drove the Jews and the Moors out of Spain, confiscated the property of their converted descendants, and immolated stubborn dissenters in autos de fe, but it is certainly not "the Christians" who are working to bring food and medicine to the most desperately poor residents of Calcutta. That's being done by Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity, who are, apparently, a different group.

    im_possessed wrote: could you give some context/commentary to those verses? It might help with discussion

    Those quotes represent an element of the Jewish propetic tradition that seems to have developed around the time of the Exile, in which the God of the Israelites began to be regarded as the God of all nations:
      1 Chronicles 16:24 - Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.

      Psalms 86:9 - All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

      Isaiah 49:6 - he says: "It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved of Israel; I will give you as a light to the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."
    Jesus' followers saw a fulfillment of this prophecy in the fact that the Temple priests, scribes, and "teachers of the law" in Jerusalem largely rejected Jesus, since afterward Jesus' mission ceased to be exclusively to the "lost sheep of Israel" and was extended to the Gentiles as well.

    Probably the clearest encapsulation of Jesus' attitude toward the relationship between Jews and Gentiles is in the parable of the Good Samaritan, in Luke 10:30-38. FWIW, priests and Levites were holy people, Samaritans were heretical slimeballs that any good Jew detested. The section below is Jesus' answer to the question, "And who is my neighbor?"
      Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was; and when he saw him, he had compassion, and went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; then he set him on his own beast and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.' Which of these three, do you think, proved neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?" He said, "The one who showed mercy on him." And Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."
    The last line, more often quoted in the King James Version format: "Go, and do thou likewise," is sometimes called the Great Commandment, and is the basis for the evangelizing of the Evangelical sects. ("Evangelizing" translates literally as "spreading the good news.")

    So that, if you really want to know, is why some Christians feel compelled to convert you.

    Edit: im_possessed wrote: I knew the context (i'm a christian and studying to be a pastor)

    A possessed pastor? That's different. I guess do-it-yourself exorcisms are more convenient. :p
  20. VoijaRisa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2002
    star 5
    I'm still not seeing where it says that people should go and (in some cases), outright harass those that have different opinions. I see lots of "proclaim it", "tell them about it", but not "ram it down their throats."
  21. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I'm still not seeing where it says that people should go and (in some cases), outright harass those that have different opinions. I see lots of "proclaim it", "tell them about it", but not "ram it down their throats."

    Different people have different definitions of "ram[ming] it down their throats". For example, my church is rather well known for having TV ads (I'm LDS/Mormon). I've met people who considered just seeing a TV ad to be "ram[ming] it down their throats".

    Is someone who knocks on your door "ram[ming] it down [your] throat"? Not necessarily. I spent 2 years as a missionary for my church (in Las Vegas), and in that time I was regularly accused of trying to force people to convert, when all I asked is if I could share a message. Nothing more.

    Remember, your perspective is not the only one out there. Most of the people who do that at least have good intentions.

    Kimball Kinnison
  22. darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2000
    star 5
    Perhaps if you could:

    define "harrass"
    define "ram it down their throat"

    Maybe, I'm not saying this is the case, but just maybe you have a little bit of intollerance and prejudice?
  23. Ikrit_Teh_Banned Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Why cant everyone just be allowed to live their own way?

    Everyone is already allowed to live his or her own way. If you want, you may attempt to convert Christians to whatever belief you have, be it to spite them or mock them. Christians believe there are two places to which you may go after your death on this world. One is Heaven, a perfect place in which every person communes with God and eachother. The other is Hell, in which everyone burns perpetually in a lake of fire. Of the two choices, they prefer the former, and they'd prefer as many humans as possible living in a perfect place with them.

    So the reason Christians attempt to convert you is: they care about your future. Again, I must emphasize that you are already allowed to live the way you wish to live (as long as you do not infringe on any one's rights).

    I think the Christian history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.

    Well, firstly, that's not a Christian history. That's an amorphous Catholic history that's been blamed on the Christians for no other reason then to besmirch our character. But if you'd like to go on making untrue, sweeping generalizations about me and others who happen to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, be my guest.

    Furthermore, I could insert just about any religion into your statement and have it be true. For example:

    I think the Muslim history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.

    I think the Atheistic history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.

    I think the Hindu history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.


    Even today, Muslims bomb towers. In Soviet Russia, atheists were responsible for the slaughter of millions of Jews and Christians. Hindus committed atrocities in the past to convert nonbelievers.
  24. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Well on the New York city subway system i have to deal frequently with anoying people who have been "saved" and are preaching on the top of their lungs. Very very annoying after/before a hard days work.

    Thank god for my i pod
  25. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Well on the New York city subway system i have to deal frequently with anoying people who have been "saved" and are preaching on the top of their lungs. Very very annoying after/before a hard days work.

    I find people who ask for free tech support annoying, but that doesn't mean that they are forcing me to help them.

    Annoyance doesn't mean that someone is forcing you into something. it only means that you don't care for their actions and/or message.

    Kimball Kinnison
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