A question to Christians

You know what's really funny? When Christians try to convert people like me! I am a Muslim female who wears a scarf; how much more do I have to do to prove that I'm already sold when it comes to religion? People who don't outwardly affirm their faith, maybe, but people in yamulkes (sp?), headscarves, or turbans -- come on! I suggest that they target those without any real spiritual beliefs (including a belief in no beliefs); we're already devoted to what we believe.

 

Christians aren't trying to sell you their religion, and to them, wearing a scarf doesn't change the fact that they want you go to Heaven.

 

I think the Christian history of slaughter and converting by the sword has made some lasting impressions, fair or not.

Which relates to the atheistic Soviet Union's work camps and purges somewhat. Atheism does not have a pure legacy, either.

<[-]> Saber

 

You know what's really funny? When Christians try to convert people like me! I am a Muslim female who wears a scarf; how much more do I have to do to prove that I'm already sold when it comes to religion? People who don't outwardly affirm their faith, maybe, but people in yamulkes (sp?), headscarves, or turbans -- come on! I suggest that they target those without any real spiritual beliefs (including a belief in no beliefs); we're already devoted to what we believe.

I am reminded of a story about Bruce R. McConkie, an Apostle in my church (who passed away in the 1980s). He was at a conference of various Christian denominations who were operating in Japan, when someone came up to him to talk. He said (paraphrasing), "We wouldn't have much of a problem with you Mormons if you just came here and tried to teach the non-Christians. But you keep coming here and try to convert our people, too! Why?"

His response: "Because we think that even _________ [I forget the denomination] deserve a chance at salvation."

Kimball Kinnison

 

A long time ago in a shoe store far, far away...

A lady walks in and asks if we have the shoe she picked up in a certain width. I informed her we did not.
She then says, "Did you here the good news?"
"What news?", I asked.
"Jesus loves you!", she said with a bright smile.
"Well, that's great.", I said with a note of sarcasm.

She promply frowned and left the store.

 

define "harrass"

Examples of this would be the sidewalk preachers that come to college campuses calling anyone that disagrees with them heathens, wicked, vile, and other such names without being provoked. Merely based on the fact that I don't dress according to their standards.

define "ram it down their throat"

Again, the bible thumpers that follow you around after you've told them to bugger off. The ones that continue coming to your door after you've told them you're not interested and not to come back.

I'm not saying this is all Christians, but there's definately some out there that need to be put out of the public's misery.

EDIT: Fixed markups.

 

Any attempt to curtail free speech or control the media would be a fair example of harassment.
In the UK at the moment a small minority of organised religious right fundamentalists are trying to dictate to the BBC. This is symptomatic of a certain type of christian. Those who would like to convert you but failing that want to control you. Control what you watch, what you read and, it goes without saying really, control your sexual behaviour within very narrowly defined limits.
In all fairness I think these individuals represent a small minority of christians and it's not just a christian thing, Sikhs in Birmingham were up in arms recently about a play and did their best to get it banned.

 

Examples of this would be the sidewalk preachers that come to college campuses calling anyone that disagrees with them heathens, wicked, vile, and other such names without being provoked. Merely based on the fact that I don't dress according to their standards.

Perfect example of a hypocite, not Christian.

Again, the bible thumpers that follow you around after you've told them to bugger off.

I suppose that would be harrassment, and very un-christian like to boot.

The ones that continue coming to your door after you've told them you're not interested and not to come back.

Now this one is a little trickier.

Peoples situations, attitudes and circumstances change.
Events can happen that change people for better and for worse.

How are we supposed to know when they might be accepting of some message if we don't continue to try?

The problem is once the end is here it will be too late to ask for help.

So we keep trying.

 

How are we supposed to know when they might be accepting of some message if we don't continue to try?

When they walk away and tell you to stop bothering them, that's a good indication they're not acception of some message. Perhaps you'd need something clearer? A swift kick to the groin?

 

"I find people who ask for free tech support annoying, but that doesn't mean that they are forcing me to help them."

Are people screaming tech questions at you from 2 feet away while you are in your car/bus/train on the way to from work? It is a bit different having someone tell me im going to hell after i just spent a day at work and all i do is want to go home. I would find it annoying even if i were a christian. Have some respect for others.

 

If he is reading, I would ask the man who has been walking up and down Oxford Street with a megaphone for the last 5 years that I've lived in London telling us all that if we don't accept the salvation of Jesus we're going to burn in Hell to possibly give it a rest for a bit as he really bums me out every time I pop to HMV to buy a DVD.

Thank you.

 

Well, firstly, that's not a Christian history. That's an amorphous Catholic history that's been blamed on the Christians for no other reason then to besmirch our character. But if you'd like to go on making untrue, sweeping generalizations about me and others who happen to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, be my guest.

Are you trying to imply that Catholics aren't Christians?

 

I have had Catholics tell me that they are not Christians, that only Catholics are saved, and that calling a Catholic a Christian is an insult. It depends on who you ask.

 

Dude those people are crazy. Catholics believe in christ, therefore "christian".

 

I think this topic is a thread of its own, and shouldn't be answered here.

 

You have to look at it from their point of view. To many Christians, God's existence is as obvious and gravity, and imagine if someone rejects gravity? Wouldn't you try to explain to them, convince them that it exists?

They believe that they are right, what else should they honestly do?

BTW, those saying who are true Christians and who is not; what gives you the right to say that? Those who are literally ramming it down peoples throats may be the true Christians, why are you so sure they are not?

 

Thank you, Guinastasia . . . I was going to respond to that, but the whole thing just made me tired. I just didn't feel up to defending individual denominations on top of an entire religion.

Maveric: WTH? That's really all I can say.

In regard to the actual thread topic, various Christian denominations and particular individuals have their own ideas about what evangelizing is about. Catholics traditionally are not verbal evangelizers. Debate and apologetics have certainly part of the Catholic tradition since the days of the Albigensian heresy, and there have been individual great street preachers, like St. John Chrysostom (Literally "St. John the golden-mouthed"), but for the most part, Catholics prefer to evangelize through their works. Some of these have been exceedingly questionable, such as encouraging Catholic schoolchildren to save pennies in order to "buy pagan babies" and save their souls, while others have been entirely laudable, such as Mother Teresa's mission in Calcutta. Maybe this is less annoying to secularists than going door to door, and maybe it isn't. It just shows that there are diverse opinions on what "Go, and do thou likewise" means.

FWIW, Jews interpret the Old Testament passages about being a "light to all nations" as being a call to set an example for the world, not a call to prostletyze.

Also--I know this will come as a shock to you all, but some of the individuals who choose to stand in public places and shriek about how everyone around them is going to hell are not entirely sane. If we can somehow manage not to despise Islam after the events of 911, I like to think that we can tolerate Christianity despite the actions of a few frothing maniacs standing on street corners. (We had one who used to show up at the school I got my BA from. I was able to have some sympathy for him only because he used to stand on a wooden box which literally had "Soap" stenciled on the side. He was quite certain that we were all homosexual prostitutes who'd had abortions and were thus going straight to hell, but at least he had a sense of humor about it.)

 

When they walk away and tell you to stop bothering them, that's a good indication they're not acception of some message. Perhaps you'd need something clearer? A swift kick to the groin?

Perhaps you need and education greater than the third grade!

Did you even read what I said?
Can you comprehend what I said?

Its about a change of circumstances.........

Never mind, it is quite obvious you are incapable of intelligent reasoning!

 

The ones that continue coming to your door after you've told them you're not interested and not to come back.

That's a bit more difficult.

Like I said before, I was a missionary for my church. I often went door to door.

We didn't keep records of what doors we knocked on and which ones we hadn't. We'd keep records of what streets we knocked on, or what apartments we'd been to. We also kept records of those who asked us to come back (as you would expect).

We also wouldn't usually repeat a street for quite some time. In the areas that I was, many people wouldn't live in one place for very long. We could knock doors on the same apartments a month apart and half the tenants would be different. In that sort of circumstance, there's a strong likelihood that anyone who asked us to not come back wouldn't be there the next time that we came through.

I remember one time that someone asked us not to come back, and then two weeks later, had moved to a different apartment and got mad at us for knocking on his door again. How were we supposed to know that he had moved? We aren't psychic, you know.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Perhaps you need and education greater than the third grade!

Never mind, it is quite obvious you are incapable of intelligent reasoning!

Perhaps you should review the sticky thread and realize that personal attacks such at that are not welcome.

Did you even read what I said?
Can you comprehend what I said?

Its about a change of circumstances.........
Yes. I did read what you said. And I fully understand it. However, you're making the assumption that I want your help and to be "saved". I don't. And as such, I don't want to be asked constantly.
And even if I did suddenly change my mind, do you think me incapable of locating a church in my town to ask for such help?

 

The problem is once the end is here it will be too late to ask for help.

We need to have an atheist organization that goes door to door and tries to show christians the light of reason. I can just imagine how many christians would find that completely offensive.

If I had the guts it'd make for a very interesting day.

 

(she is a witch)

Hi Jabba,

I'd like to ask what sort of "witch" is she? Although I realize "witches" are known to ride broomsticks, I'm highly doubtful your fiancee rides one.

Could you possibly present more about her faith before people assume her to be:
a) Harry Potter
b) Wicca
c) Glenda, the good witch from the East

In this day and age, there are so many sects from any religion, it's helpful to know ones bounds. I'd naturally presmue her to be (b) Wicca, but to blatantly describe Wicca as merely a "witch" would be highly presumptious. No, I dont expect reply. Humans tend to to respond to me.


G-D

 

I have several questions about why Christians seem to get this bad wrap about trying to shove theology down the throats of everyone else.

We care about you enough to step past our comfort boundaries and talk to you about somthing that is not easy...eternity. We get easily dismissed as fanatic, extremist, "Right-wing closed minded Hicks" and many other things...while people in the media push their philosophies all over the place and get nothing but praise. Mel Gibson recieved nothing but disgust from his peers in Hollywood; however do you think that anyone tells Tom Cruise, John Travolta, or the late Christopher Reeves that they're just too extreme when they tout their Scientology as life changing?

I think it is this: our beliefs are that if one is not a Christian (IE the belief that Jesus is the Messiah, he died, rose, and destroyed sin; accepting that and repenting) Then Hell is the ONLY alternative to heaven. It's not that we can sugarcoat it, water it down, deny the fact or avoid the issue by saying "it's just THAT you believe...not what you believe in." to do so would be to betray ourselves, our integrity, and the very principles that we live by...and people don't want to be told this. Everyone wants to go along and live their lives without being bothered by the boundaries that God has put into existance. Post-modernists don't like to be told that Absolute Truth exists.

All that being said, I disagree with Christians methodology when it comes to witnessing. If you follow the life and ministry of Jesus; he tended to the unbeliever by meeting their needs...he judged them in love and saved his wrath for those who profaned his church (a good example is the turning over of the money tables).

Finally I leave with two statements:

To Christians- Be kind and compassionate. Remember that those who don't share your beliefs have a choice to do so, or to not...despite how you feel, It's the Holy Spirit's job to speak to the soul...not yours. Live by example; speak softly with wisdom.

To Non-Christians- Real Christians are not "out to convert" you. Those who are do not understand the ministry of Jesus, they don't represent the "Whole" of our faith. You'll know a "True" Christian not by his many attempts to debate or change your mind; but by the way he takes intrest in your life and realize that he's not judging you because your beliefs are different; he's just expressing his beliefs.

 

Remember, your perspective is not the only one out there. Most of the people who do that at least have good intentions.

I think that's generally true, Kimball; unfortunately, there are some bad apples out there that have tainted the reputation of those who "spread the Good News". My own experiences with missionaries have been generally positive, with one exception: On a night out on the town back when I was in college, my friend saw some people he had known from our high school on a street corner handing out christian literature. We politely refused to take it, at which point one of the group began moralizing, telling us that we were going to hell and that drinking was akin to committing murder. His exact words were "can you only murder someone a little bit?", delivered in a condescending tone and decidedly superior tone. At this point, my one friend turned around and informed him that he was "a sheep in a flock".

Those who scoff at evangelicals usually have had an experience such as this at one point or another in their lives. While I would never judge the entire movement based on one encounter, I think that a lot of the resentment that is referred to regarding missionaries stems from the rare individuals who cross the line from preaching into "pushing".

They are the exception, rather than the rule, but those who few individuals who do not have good intentions have at times been cited as rationale for tainting the entire movement.

Peace,

V-03

 

I am not a Christian and neither is my fiancee (she is a witch) but we are always getting Christians trying to convert us. Why?

Because TECHNICALLY, to be a Christian, you have to preach. It was one of the rules passed down by Jesus.