A Question to the Administration Regarding a Recent Issue

You should cut KW some slack. At least he's in here discussing the issue. Don't knock him because you guys differ.

I'm not knocking him because we differ, Salty. I differ with GriffZ on this matter and he's been nothing but polite, offering suggestions and possible alterations to the current idea that may allow it to work. I've differed with DarthAttorney on how he's run the EU Community forum, but my discussions with him about it were always polite, even friendly.

Give me some credit for being a little more open minded than that.

JMA

 

This is true.
It could be worse....there could be a total stonewall tactic against this idea. But there's not because some mods like it and are arguing for it while others are against it.

If people complain in the future that members of the administration never give their personal opinions in public forums, we can certainly point them towards this thread for rebuttal

 

I'll be happy to give you proper credit for being open minded about this situation. I just thought you were being a little too harsh on KW for his views. My apologies about that.

Now...I still happen to agree with GriffZ and Amazing about PM'ing a public sock.

 

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standards, JMA. I consider myself to have a semblence of tact and ability to intelligently express myself without offending people. I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.

As far as the subject goes, I simply am against a public nomination thread. That's all.

 

Salty-

No problems amigo. Perhaps I am being a little too hard on KW, but I just feel like he's looking for any reason at all to shoot down the idea of getting the public involved. *shrug* I might be letting my emotions get the best of me here, and for that I apologize.

I just really want to see the regular users more involved in the way things run around here. I think it would really be a change for the better.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standards, JMA. I consider myself to have a semblence of tact and ability to intelligently express myself without offending people. I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.

*shrug* Can't please everyone. No worries, brother.


JMA

 

I just really want to see the regular users more involved in the way things run around here. I think it would really be a change for the better.

But can you see how some of us feel that there already is a way for members to give their input, via PMs to current admins?

I can see how a private nominating system could work, and I'm not quite sure how I feel about it.

 

I wonder if this thread will get locked after my post like the last one was....but I am restating what I said in the other thread that was closed before anyone could respond.

I honestly don't understand why "everything" isn't done in "public." What is the point of maintinaing such secrecy, which inherently creates distrust from the JCers? What do we have at stake that would call for such secrecy to be present? Would we lose money? No. Job opportunities? No. Reputation? Please, on a SW messageboard? If someone is that concerned about a particular online reputation, they have issues, plain and simple. Hurt feelings? Part of life my friend. If getting your feelings hurt on the JC is the worst thing that happens to you, you've got a hell of a lot better life than most of us.

So what's the justification for the secrecy? I don't see any. And honestly, the secrecy also allows for abuses of the "power" mods would have, which we all know gets abused, let's not kid ourselves. Except for a few standout threads, the YJCC is a damn joke and everyone knows it. I'm not a bit surprised people on the mod squad don't want future mod votes to be made in "public." Take away the secrecy, and you take away their biggest ego stroker, which is very sad that people feel like they need that.

I don't know if this post will get me banned or not. All I do know is I've got almost 2100 posts and have never shown one bit of interest in becoming a mod, nor do I want such a "job" in the future. I just want this to be an enjoyable little escape for a few minutes in my day like it has been in the past. I think this place is entirely capable of being fun for everyone, but some people's egos just get in the way, and it should end.

 

Just for the record, the last thread was locked only because this thread was started, which made the previous one obsolete.

 

But can you see how some of us feel that there already is a way for members to give their input, via PMs to current admins?

Of course I can, and I admit that there are advantages to it, such as efficiency. But I don't agree with it. Simply because it's easier, and it is part of a system that is already in place, is no reason not to change. I think the public of the JC wants this place to be the best that it can be, and in order to do that I honestly think the public needs to be able to officially have their say, rather than through a PM to one member of the Mod Squad with no assurances that it's contents will get read by any other members.

JMA

 

So I guess we basically have three options.


1. PMs go through Advisory Council
2. Public Nominations in a thread
3. PMs through Mod Sock


I really don't like #2 as I feel it would increase campaigning, hurt feelings, etc... Plus it might be that some people wouldn't feel comfortable with the process, which would decrease participation. (This is bad). So #2 is out for me.

The other two are alot better IMHO. I have concerns about both of them which I'll try to outline later. I'd just like to say that in terms of #1 I don't like the idea of the AC whittling down the nominations.

 

Alright, I see noone has posted.


Anyway, if nominations need to be whittled down I'd rather see the Mods do it for a few reasons.

1. They can tell who's a sock. (for nominations and to make sure no sneaky trolls get nominated)

2. The mods come from every single forum. The AC doesn't have as big of a reach throughout the JC IMHO, so the MS (more specifically the mod of that forum) would be more likely to know who the nominated people are. No offense to the AC, I just think less canditates who deserved a shot would be dismissed this way. (And also more nominees who are "sketchy" would be found out)

Those are just some of my concerns, I have more.

 

GriffZ

Oh, and what happens when ACers start getting nominated? (Which they will.) That's a bit of a conflict, isn't it?

Not whena Mod can decide not to pick him

Work it the same way. If someone accuses a Mod of something, how can a Mod decide? Same thing.

And anyway, why is it that the AC keeps getting bashed on things like trust? If the AC can cause a problem, the mods certainly can.



Sending a PM is better in my mind for one main reason: Less hurt feelings. That really is something that has to be considered.

Also, you lose the "You vote for me, I vote for you" thing, as noone notices



Master Salty
I've personally sent PM's to Mods stating who I felt would make a good Mod and those PM's were welcomed.

I once e-mailed a film studio, and got a reply thanking me for my feedback. Doesnt mean they actually read it



KnightWriter
But can you see how some of us feel that there already is a way for members to give their input, via PMs to current admins?

But how does it actually HELP? Sure, I COULD PM a Mod for who would make a good Lit mod, but we wont have once for a while now. Come the time its being discussed, that PM wont be remembered.



Spike_Spiegal
1. They can tell who's a sock. (for nominations and to make sure no sneaky trolls get nominated)

sorry to sound rude, but AND???

Sock nominates a person. It goes through whittling, same as any other nomination. In what way does that benefit anyone? Do you think the AC would be so small minded as to pick the person who got more nominations than others, not looking at other subjects.

 

I once e-mailed a film studio, and got a reply thanking me for my feedback. Doesnt mean they actually read it

You raise a valid point. I should add that one of the people that I mentioned in the PM is a Mod now.

EDIT: I'm not delusional enough to think my input was the only reason this person is a Mod.

 

I don't understand your question Reaper.

Mods are in position to tell if a nominee is the sock of a troll or if a dozen nominations come from the same person. The AC isn't. That was my point.

And you didn't respond to my other point as to why mods are in a better position to whittle down nominations.

And don't worry, you weren't that rude.

 

Well, point one, you'd probably whittle out people who've only been here a week



Also, 12 nominations from one person means nothing. If they're no good, they dont get picked.

 

Well, point one, you'd probably whittle out people who've only been here a week


It might be cause I just woke up but... ?



And let me throw out a hypothetical.



OK Candidate gets 20 nominations from the people in his forum. Huge show of support.

GREAT Canditate gets two nominations.



How much do these different numbers affect the decision by the AC (or MS too for that matter?).

 

Spike, most socks would be either new, or have few posts.



And let me throw out a hypothetical.


OK Candidate gets 20 nominations from the people in his forum. Huge show of support.

GREAT Canditate gets two nominations.


How much do these different numbers affect the decision by the AC (or MS too for that matter?).

They dont. Was I to do it (And Id assume many would also), Id write the name down the first time, and ignore any other appearences.

 

Going by your hypothetical, I would hope the GREAT candidate would get the nod. The problem you run into is the differing opinions of who is GREAT and who is just OK. In that situation, I can't see the public having their nomination picked. Of course that puts us back to square one concerning the public picking Mods.

 

Well that's what I'm saying, this process is not gonna be easy.


And Reaper, there might be a situation where some people who come back as socks and get lots of posts have old ids were trolls.

And as far as socks having few posts or being new what does that mean for newbies who are in the same situation. All I'm saying is because the mods have the power to weed them out it would be better IMHO for them to whittle down the nominations. Plus... every forum has a mod and not every forum has an AC member. What happens if a forum nominates people and noone in the AC knows that person cause they don't come to that forum? Just some things I was thinking about.

 

When I first heard about this idea, I thought the advisory council would actually be a small group of mods with nothing better to do?

That not being the case, I?m still in favor of the idea. If the ?title? under RF?s name doesn?t deceive me, and he is a good representation of who is on the AC, I don?t see a big problem with the AC. I trust RF to make good decisions.

As long as there is a good amount of communication between the Mods and the AC, there shouldn?t be a problem. The mods tell the AC what type of mod they are looking for, and the AC goes out and finds people that would best fit that role. If an AC member has serious concerns about the validity of a nomination, and is also concerned that this nomination could influence the choosing process, then that AC member can talk to a mod to have that nomination?s validity looked into.

 

Oh...gee, a little late I just noticed you ARE on the AC, Reaper! Well congrats!

Anyway, I still support nominations being whittles down by the AC. RF's right of course. No one is proposing the AC actually elect mods (though it's actually not a terrible idea, except of course, that means the mods would have no say in the elections at all, which I doubt they would be willing to accept). But having the AC involved is a good plan, imo.

Also- I don't think anyone shoudl be elected based on how many nominations they get. That's what turns the whole thing into a popularity contest. If you have Joe Blow and his 52 socks nominating someone, and you're basing your picks as a mod on that, well, than that's a problem. But I think that the AC (or the mods) should count everyone who is nominated equally, whether they have one nomination or 52.

 

I'm stealing this from Sapient.

---

[i][color=blue]Users giving nominations for new moderators[/color]

Of all the suggestions to come out of Comms, this is the one Mod Squad is most divided on. This is a hot topic, it?s very much alive and active, but we have no definitive policy answer yet as we don?t want to rush to a conclusion for the sake of doing so. There has been so much good discussion, but it essentially centers around the following ideas:


1. Leave the system as it is. Mods occasionally receive PM nominations, we post those in Mod Squad, recommend names ourselves, and proceed from there.

2. Allow users to PM nominations to a moderator sock where it would be anonymous, all admins periodically pull the PM?s and bring the results to Mod Squad, and we compile where we?re at.

3. Start a sticky thread wherein we announce a need, allow members to post for a week or so, lock it, compile the results in Mod Squad, add that to our own thoughts, and decide

I don?t want to give a deadline. There is good discussion and each forum does things differently. We need to completely hear all thoughts and proceed intelligently.

[/i]
[hr]


Well, out of the three I like number 2 the best. Anyway, I'd just like to point out that LB is taking nominations already for several forums, or is that put on hold?