A review of TESB from back in the day...

I forgot about this sentence from the review, but for anyone who was there in 1980 like myself, this was a huge letdown to many. You have to remember nobody dared make a film without an ending, and it pissed alot of people off. I remember my older brother saying, "Two hours, and we are back to square one?"

.[/quote]

As a kid back in the days the BEST thing about Empire was the end! They cliffhanger! It was missing from the PT movies. God i was great! Waiting 3 years, talking to friends about what would happen, etc! I LOVED IT!!! Most filmakers would never let the film end on such a down note. I LOVE IT!

 

You are SO RIGHT! Like my Daughter has seen all the movies but she loves the PT stuff the most and years from now. Those are the ones she grow up on the most and watched the most. To her they will be the best for the series. If you grow up doing the CT time, it has a specail place in your heart, and the newer fans, they will love the PT the same. Don't get me wrong she loves them all but she much rather watch a PT (and her fav is TPM!) than one of the CT.

 

We can give specific examples of one person, but that doesn't mean the masses will follow. For example, my 8 year old nephew loves ESB, ANH, ROTS, but in the same vein think ROTJ, TPM, AOTC are all so-so.

What everyone forgets is that movie quality will always trump what you love as a little kid, and that is why there is a saying about movies, "Will they stand the test of time?" That is what great movies do, and that is why they are classics, they stand the test of time.

There is a reason The Godfather I & II are considered classics, and 16 years later, Godfather III is still considered a good, but not great sequel, and it has nothing to do with whether you grew up in 1972 or 1990, it has to do with the quality of the movie.

 

On the other end of the age spectrum there's my dad who's seen all six in theaters(admittedly he was 20 when ANH came out, so for him it doesn't have that childhood tie), who thinks that RotS and ESB are tied for first.

 

As a kid back in the days the BEST thing about Empire was the end! They cliffhanger! It was missing from the PT movies. God i was great! Waiting 3 years, talking to friends about what would happen, etc! I LOVED IT!!! Most filmakers would never let the film end on such a down note. I LOVE IT![/quote]

Yeah, I was 10 when ESB came out and I knew there was going to be a 3rd movie so the fact that it didn't "end" was of no concern to me... just made me more excited for the next one.

 

I have to convince my 46 year old father that the OT are just as good if not better than the PT. Infact he can barely stay awake for ANH and ESB, he only likes ROTJ. Then agian he never liked SW before I was born, but still...He likes it more for the Anakin-Vader story.

 

Grammatical nitpicking made baby Jesus cry.

 

Here is a review of ESB by Siskel & Elbert from the re-release. They liked it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZU61fR8r4Q

 

A bit hard on Chewie though...

 

As far as Aliens go, yes, strong women is the whole theme behind them. No arguments here. When I said these movies, I just meant Star Wars, not sci-fi in general. Sci-fi tends to target cerebral types - female, male, doesn't matter. But war and fantasy movies (not based on a Tolkien trioloy) tend to target boys (small and small at heart).

Now when I say target, of course I'm not excluding women.

 

There is a reason The Godfather I & II are considered classics, and 16 years later, Godfather III is still considered a good, but not great sequel, and it has nothing to do with whether you grew up in 1972 or 1990, it has to do with the quality of the movie.

Right. Which is why I consider ESB, AOTC and ROTS the cream of the SW saga. There are a lot of people who feel the same. There are a lot of people who feel differently. I'm denying the opinions of those who feel that the OT is better. But the OT fans and the media seemed to believe that their opinion is the only one that matters.

But just because many believe that GODFATHER I and II are better than III, DOES NOT mean that the PT will continue to be held as inferior to the OT years or decades in the future. We simply do not know and I feel that it is arrogant to assume that we do.

 

I see.

 

Critics are idoits, sadly so are those who listen to them....

D_M_S_L

 

Dark_Faith posted:Yeah, thats all bogus. I'm an 18 year old male, and I don't really care much about action and explosions. I want drama, characters, a story and emotion. Action is just bonus.



plain

I see.





Is there a problem?

 

Well, I want to see it, not just imagine it.

Well, I didn't much like LotR either. And so what is mythologies deal primarily with male figures? That doesn't mean Lucas has to follow suit, nor does it mean that I have to just sit back and like it. Explaining the reasoning behind why something that sucks is the way it is doesn't change the fact that it sucks. Make it better, don't explain it away!

And yet the argument is still relevent. The point is that there has been action-based sci-fi aimed at guys that has had strong female characters made in roughly the same filmmaking era as Star Wars, so there's no reason why Star Wars can't or shouldn't.

Well, they shouldn't. It's a stereotype, and an unjust one.

 

What are you doing watching Star Wars, then?

It is what it is.

Sounds like you just wasted however many years of your life.

What are you talking about? Leia was one of the most progressive characters going in a Sci Fi/Fantasy production at the time. She backtalked Vader, mocked Tarkin, rebuked Han and just generally kicked a load of butt.

 

Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So there's an element of Star Wars I find somewhat annoying; from this you extraoplate that I hate Star Wars completely?

And she's just one female character out of a double-wide buttload of male characters. That's the problem...or have you forgotten the first post I made on this subject?

Furthermore, watch Leia's face in ANH when she's firing a blaster, especially during the swashbuckling-across-the-chasm scene; she hates firing that thing, almost like she's scared of the loud bang it'll make! Kicked a load of butt, my ass! And why isn't she in an X-wing, fighting the Death Star? Hell, we had to wait until TPM before we saw a female pilot, and we never did after that! And there certainly weren't any female ground troops in any of the major battles of the OT, and the PT pretty much only saw Jango-esque combatants and a few Jedi commanders.

Holding up Leia as an example is great...but the fact remains that she and Padme are pretty much the token females in an otherwise male cast.

 

I could say the same thing for the men. Why are all the men in SW warriors? What about pacifist and peaceful men like myself...Its not fair! blah blah...

It dosen't really bother me. Men aren't portrayed so perfectly either. I mean ROTS is basicialy the story of the failings of manhood.

 

Frankly, I'm more concerned with numbers than anything else. No female characters besides possibly Shmi gets even a tenth as much screen time as Leia or Padme.

Perfect isn't the problem; nobody expects perfect. A perfect character is no fun to watch. But it'd be nice to have more female role-models to choose from. It comes down to numbers and screen-time more than anything else. I'm looking for some equality here, not perfection. Why do so many people try to argue extremes on this board?

 

I was hoping for more female Jedi on the Council.

That's about it.

Leia didn't get in an X-Wing because she wasn't a trained pilot. She never flew. I suppose it would have been cool to see her develop the ability.

I think there is a commentary on the male bias in AOTC. When Obi Wan and Anakin are chasing Zam, they naturally assume it's a man.

Having more male figures gives Star Wars a mythological coherency. The idea of fathers and sons is really a metaphor for how knowledge and wisdom is passed down and attained by different generations. Star Wars simply wouldn't *be* Star Wars with any other kind of setup. Pure Science Fiction, or "Speculative Fiction", should certainly explore the genders, however. Not to mention different ethnicities and beliefs. Too much of it is homogenised. Something like "Firefly", sadly cancelled, of course, is more forward-thinking, but the idea of a "Wild West" is still a masculine construct, not to mention all the phallic symbolism with guns, and Mal is still the leader. "Farscape" was actually a little better, I think, but still unofficially "led" by a male character. "Star Trek: Voyager" was maybe a little better still, but there more male characters than females in the cast. It's a man's world. But fiction should explore all possibilities. Unfortunately, as far as dramatised Science Fiction and Fantasy goes, it *has* to be mostly male, mostly heterosexual stuff, simply because these shows and films cost a lot to make, and there's no way they'd get the audiences to sustain them otherwise. That's a rather depressing thought, but that's the world we live in.

 

The Empire Strikes Back is the second best movie ever made. The first best being The Godfather and The Godfather part II. This review was simply a hit piece that looks ridiculuous in retrospect.

 

You kinda touched on it Cryo, the reason that SciFi is male dominated is because the audience is male dominated, so they are just playing to that base.

Would I like to see more women in SW movies, etc, sure cause I think Leia and Ripley, and Sarah Connor are all great characters, but in reality male scifi fans look up to 'cool' characters: Han Solo, Arnold in T:2, Marty McFly, Aragorn, etc. Whether it is fair or not, that is a seperate issue, but it is just the way it is.

 

what??? You say ESB is second best moive ever made but then you name two movies that are better (Godfather and Godfather II). So do you think ESB is the thrid best movie?

 

Rocket Girl...

Star Wars movies are war/fantasy movies which are targeted to boys/men who are boys at heart. This fact has been stated by GL many times over the years. It's not rocket science.
If girls like it too, hooray. But they are , essentially, guy flicks.

Faith...

Explosions, fights, chases are called 'action scenes' which are important elements of excitement. Star Wars is largely a visual series, and it provides us with many examples of 'action'. Without these elements of 'war', 'fantasy' and 'excitement', we'd be left with 'Star Trek'.

 

And then people wonder I'm more boy than girl with those role models.
But I'm a bit of a sexist - if the parts are cast with hotties, I'm happy.