Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread -- spoilers allowed

His marriage to her makes more sense in the book- he's doing what he believes that Ned would have done. If Robb had preggo'd Jeyne and not married her, the kid would have been a bastard. Having grown up in the same household as Jon Snow, Robb knew the crap bastards often had to go through (coughCatelynTullycough) and didn't want his possible child to go through with that. Plus he had already soiled her, which would have made it harder to arrange a good marriage for her. Book Robb was doing what he believed to be the honorable thing, while show Robb was just thinking with his crotch. Though I have to say that the show gives the viewer a better idea of why Roose Bolton turned on Robb.

I don't know. I seem to remember Bolton only following Robb (and Ned and Rickard) because Robb was the stronger lord. Once he saw weakness (Robb's marriage to a Westerlander and betrayal of his promise to Walder Frey) and a way to increase his standing, he took the opportunity to eliminate his family's historical enemy.

Right, I think that the books offer more reasoning and rationalization on Robb's part than the show does. I don't deny that an element of lust was involved in the book as well, but the show seemed to make lust the first and foremost motivation.

I guess that I'm saying more that we get to see Roose's thought process on screen, or at least part of the motivation. He gets to witness the whole sordid Robb/Talysa romance- it's hard not to, seeing as she interrupts him every time he tries to advise Robb.

Robb definitely made a mistake in sending Roose off to command troops while keeping the Greatjon close. Should have been the other way around, IMO.

Well, in the books, and this is where I vastly prefer the books to what they did in the tv show, I seem to recall that Robb married Jeyne because he got her pregnant. He did something honorable (but still selfish) by marrying her.

edit: dangit, defeated by "There are more posts to view" once again.

There's a bit of debate about whether or not Jeyne was ever pregnant. The theory that the Blackfish escaped with a pregnant Jeyne depends upon whether or not the different descriptions of Jeyne's hips (from Catelyn and from Jaime) was intentional, or just a typo by GRRM.

But yeah, agreed.

There's no clear indication that she got pregnant (though there are theories pointing to some odd hints). He only took her virginity.

I don't know. Greatjon would've probably charged Tywin and lost the whole army. Roose is sly, he would never have risked the army. Greatjon is just to much of a risk to put in command.

Robb's problem was he didn't have someone he could trust like Greatjon watching Roose at all times. Robb should've kept over Roose like a hawk and if Roose did leave to command Robb should've had his most loyal men with him at all times.

Hahaha, that is a great idea!

hahahahaha brilliant!

So there's no time when you disliked Sansa and no time that you liked Sansa more than you previously had?

Honesty at last.

Okay I haven't talked ASoIaF for a little while and I need to.
So anyway I was reading over the epilogue of ADwD (which is awesome) and I can't get the picture of Varys and his "birdies" stumbling upon Qyburn perform his 'procedures' in the dungeons. So I'm going to put it out there that Varys is responsible for Qyburn's death for the following reasons.
1) Varys hates magic users since being cut.
2) Qyburn took his job
3) It'd be awesome

Uh, don't you mean Pycelle's death? Qyburn is alive and well as far as I can remember.

Ah no, that's just my terrible and poorly edited sentence structure.

That's more clear.

I have to say that I love Varys' reappearance at the end of ADWD. I was wondering where he'd been off to!

Varys' part in ADWD was about the only thing I liked about it. The whole book seemed to drag on and on. Hopefully, WoW will be better.

Found this on reddit:

"The Stark family is a personification of the seven.

• Ned - The honorable Father
• Catelyn - The merciful Mother
• Sansa - The scheming Maid
• Arya - The merciless Stranger
• Robb - The fearless Warrior
• Bran - The wise Crone
• Rickon - The Smith

Even more proof for Jon not being Ned's son"

It's pretty good, although it gets a bit wobbly with Bran and Rickon. Rickon could be the one to rebuild Winterfell, I guess...

I like it.
I think that Bran's experiences will grant him wisdom, he's definitely gained some since his fall. Rickon, on the other hand, as this picture says, hasn't yet done much. I desperately hope that TWoW grants us some Osha/Rickon/Davos action.

I like it too, although I don't buy it that it's more proof that Jon isn't Ned's son ~or~ not a Stark in some way. Either way, he's only half-Stark. Either he's a Stark through Ned or through Lyanna. Getting a direwolf proves that he does have Stark blood.

While we're all here; has anyone else been interested in Lands of Ice and Fire? I pre-ordered it the other day purely because it's set to show where Qarth and Asshai are on official maps.

Heh. I am going to read the **** out of that book.