Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/07/26/george-r-r-martin-wont-writing-episode-season-5-talks-winds-winter-prologue/]Martin[/url] says he won't be writing an episode of Season 5, apparently because he has some book he is trying to finish writing.

Sounds like he's getting into crunch mode and may have the book done this year. I hope.

In regards to the prologue of WoW:

Spoiler

He confirmed Jeyne won't be the PoV, and that he may even break with tradition in regards to the opening PoV dying.

 

Well, I finally subjected myself to the Season 4 Finale. On the plus side, I thought the wall sequences and Bran's arrival at the three-eyed crow were pretty well done. Though the three-eyed crow's appearance was botced pretty badly -- did they even listen to the dialogue? He only has one freakin' eye!

I thought the Brienne-Hound battle was well done in and of itself, but rather problematic in terms of the overall story.

On the other hand, they have just absolutely buchered everything to do with the Lannisters. The Jamie/Cersei storyline is a disaster, now they've brought Tywin into that train wreck. But worst of all is what they did to the Tyrion-Tywin confrontation at the end. Taking away Jamie's confession about Tysha takes away a fundamental part of his motivation for going to kill his father. Plus, his recognizing where he is (based on what Shae had told him) is completely lost. it's as if he just has this great recollection of the entire secret tunnel system in the Red Keep. Never mind that he's never been in it before. Finally, without the set-up of the the Tysha revelation, everything that happens in the Hand's chambers simply loses a much of its weight. I would say that it rings hollow, but it loses much of its gravitas.

 

No, different actors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Callis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Siddig

 

A few pages back I confused the actor who plays/played Jojen Reed (Thomas Sangster, who has had several other notable roles, incl Liam Neeson's stepson in "Love, actually ..") with an actor of similar age who played Midshipman Lord Blakeney in "Master & Commander". A few days ago, M&C was on TV and i swear my brain kept photoshopping Sangster's face onto Blakeney.

So who is crazy now?

 

Other than being skinny English guys on sci-fi shows... not really.

 

FTFY

 

Certainly looks like she's been cut out. No news on her casting, Trystane listed as heir and also no Arys Oakheart. Surprising HBO didn't insist on the character not being cut, given what a "sex person" she is.

Also, are they making Trystane an only child? No news on casting Quentyn, and Trystane being listed as heir would also seem to rule out Quentyn existing on the show. Admittedly, the plot really fizzles in the books, but the overarching plot by Doran to take revenge is pretty much gone now, isn't it?

Lastly, looking at the actresses cast as the Sand Snakes, it seems they've not so much casted the Sand Sankes as having just cast several copies of one Sand Snake.

 

Quentyn's does, but not the "revenge" plot.

And the Martell clan having only one kid is part of the pattern for the show after season 1 (Starks, Lannisters, and Baratheons have as many children as they're supposed to). Even though I think Victarion was mentioned once in season 1 (as "your uncle" to Theon), Balon might as well not have brothers. Mace Tyrell has only two children. And now Doran has only one ****ing kid. Casting budget aside, I don't think the showrunners quite understand that these are not modern upper-middle-class families; they're going to have as many kids as they can. It's also lazy. You can keep some siblings mostly offscreen, like the two other Tyrell brothers; they clearly just wanted Loras to be the heir to simplify things for the audience. And it's stupid. Trystane being the only Martell kid and not Arianne? wtf?

 

Well, they've already introduced Trystane, so he's the only one they can't cut.

 

I still can't believe Trystane is the heir. I mean at least Quentyn had development in the books. Trystane was a background decoration.

 

It's possible Benioff and Weiss may be acting on what they know about the end of the series.

 

Again, all indications point to Martin not really telling them much. I hate how fans act as though the changes relate to what they "know" about the end of the book series when there's already clear evidence to the contrary. For example, Martin told them not to kill Mago in season 1 as he would show up later, but they did it anyway. He also told them that the cut Tyrell brothers would become more important. This is what he tells interviewers, and he's pretty damned reluctant to criticize the show. So we should stop proclaiming that the Greyjoys aren't going to amount to anything or Arianne is going to drop dead in the first chapter of WoW or something.

 

But I remember something to the effect of both Martin and the show writers saying he told them where each of the major characters ends up, way back around season 1 or 2.

Edit: did not see your last two sentences.

 

Martin said, and this is a direct quote, that he told them the "broad strokes" of where the characters end up. This is a series where "broad strokes" can't tell you much. Though I can see the showrunners reacting to, say, "Victarion dies" with "OH WELL HE DOESN'T SURVIVE TO THE END I GUESS HE'S NOT IMPORTANT THEN."

 

Do you have an article on hand? I've been trying to find one.

I dislike the majority of the changes they've inflicted, but this sudden promotion of Trystane gave me pause. He is such a minor character, with more major Martells surrounding him, that his inclusion and their exclusion just makes me wonder if Gurm said something like, "Oh, yeah, this dude turns really important."

I suppose the worst case scenario has to be considered, which is that "broad strokes" or no, the show writers just want to do whatever they want with the series. In which case, good luck, lol.

 

They've already started, which is why I'm baffled at a lot of people (the vast majority of fans on Westeros.org and /r/asoiaf) thinking that they're slavishly following the books.

 

So does one of them have a weird, wocky-like hard-on for Trystane, then? I mean, wtf, what a random character to boost.

 

It's entirely likely that since Trystane is mentioned so little in the books he's virtually a blank slate the showrunners can have act and do whatever they want for whatever new plot lines they've invented. I mean if they used Arianne or Quentyn but had them do nothing like in the books or act out of character people would complain, but with Trystane they can do whatever they want.

I think the showrunners decided after season 3 they had their main cast and anyone new would just be a side character for a few episodes before they can get back to the main people. Even if the books had main characters they aren't going to show up or have the same impact if the showrunners can give their stuff to a main character they already have.

 

Isn't Trystane just the one Martell already mentioned by the show as the guy betrothed to Myrcella so they're locked into using his name even if the character turns out to be an amalgamation of Arianne and Quentyn or whatever? I wouldn't read anything more into it than that.

Obviously you are unaware that GRRM has already finished the final two volumes of ASOIAF, word for word, and given them to the showrunners to read every detail, which they are scrupulously enacting by completely ignoring the contents of the books that have been actually published. I mean, how can you build up to the colossal reveal that Jeyne Westerling is actually pregnant with Robb's heir if you don't show her as pregnant and also a nonsensically modern foreign nurse with a different name? Isn't it obvious that they've excluded the Tower of Joy because Jon is just Ned's bastard child with some random wet nurse after all and why bother with all these extraneous red herrings when the past will have no influence on the events of the series after all? Wake up and smell the tinfoil, Guy!

 

Maybe they included him because he's got "tryst" in his name.

 

George Martin met with them again before Season 4, to answer any remaining questions they had.

So they basically know as much as he does.

 

Broad. Strokes.

 

yeah, those quotes are the opposite of encouraging.