Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

So one of the producers wore a shirt to a press conference for the IMAX release (of them ruining the end of ASOS) with "R+L= " embroidered on it. Of course, show only people have no clue what that means since the show has never even dropped the slightest hint.

 

Season Five trailer is out.

Spoiler: Major Season 5 and TWoW

No fAegon.
No Griffin.
No Euron.
No Wyman.
No Quentyn.
No Arianne.


Discuss.

 

Oh, I'll watch. I need something to complain about until the Star Wars sequel comes out.

 

Also, I'm slowly reaching the end of my AADWD reread (which I had initially hoped would take up my time until TWOW came out -- fat chance!). Hard to get past the feeling that book would have been the weakest in the series if not for the Reek/Theon chapters.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

 

Not that I expect WoW in 2015, but IIRC there were "no plans" for DwD's release until like four months before publication, right?

 

Okay, Pierre!

 

No bloody surprise

 

So anyone going to place bets on a character who is still alive in the books getting offed this season as the show is just speeding right on through to the end?

Honestly would not surprise me if Margaery and/or Tommen both bought it this season.

Give Ellaria and the Sand Snakes a 25% chance of surviving.

 

Actually, I had a thought about that somewhat in my fever-induced haze this week.

So, if we recall -- Lena Headey tweeted a picture that relatively looked like it was tweeting Lady Stoneheart... only for her to not show up. Now, we know Fairley has said she's not returning and, I believe, the producers -- while remaining relatively mum -- have basically said no as well... and it's not because of a lack of magic (they stuck with a wraith born of Red Priestess vajayjay killing Renly after all). But wasn't it right around the time that GRRM gave them teh low-down on how it was all going to end?

It wouldn't surprise me if, based on his talking to them, they revised a lot of things and are excising the bits that won't play much of a role in the future... which would include things like Lady Stoneheart and that entire group, which likely means that's not a part of the major endgame of the series, from which we can draw some pretty major inferences given Brienne and Pod's path, etc. So, yes, I think we're going to see more people -- who we (book people) would expect to be more important than they are get offed.

 

That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Honestly I think they want to kill off characters still alive in the books just to have book readers be as on edge as everyone else.

Other than Dany, Jon, and Tyrion, I think everyone else as of now can die pretty much at any point.

 

Spoiler: Major Season 5 and TWoW

Woohoo!!

 

After ADWD, Georgey deserved it.

 

Of course! In the grand tradition of Peter Jackson, the Coen Brothers, and Francis Ford Coppola.

 

So... I'm not sure if this needs a spoiler tag since it's discussing a publicly released trailer and theories for future ASOIAF based on current ASOIAF.

But, here's what we can glean from the current seasons of AGOT and the trailer:

- No Lady Stoneheart or The Brotherhood without Banners
- No Aegon Targaryen
- Aerys travels with Tyrion, meaning no Pycelle / Kevan / Castle Clean-up plotline

I think this is some of the things that we can infer:

1) Brienne and Podrick are in absolutely no danger in the books, therefore the most logical conclusions is they will intersect with the Sansa/Littlefinger plotline (even within the books). What's most fascinating to me is, in the books, this can play out in a wholly different way -- since Brienne was given her mission by Cat (who is clearly having none of it right now) -- but then end up with Littlefinger who loved "only Cat." then finding out she's "alive," As well, in theory, there can be a good innuendoed conversation about each of them having a unrequited love.

I also would find it fascinating to put the, maybe, one character who cannot be bribed by Littlefinger into his direct orbit.

2) I'll come back to this.

3) We're still getting all the Sparrow bits but none of the kingdom clean-up under Kevan bits -- I mean, I suppose it could go to Jamie, but we have no evidence that he's not going to ditch Cersei like he does in the books and go out riding to sort problems -- which I would guess means that the Kings Landing parts are still just going to be dysfunctional and the Queen of Thorns will take the reins in making sure Margaery gets her fill, both of penis as well as her subjects' emotional love, by being a good Queen Regent. Ultimately, I think this is fine, so long as the Lannister rule is wholly dysfunctional. We may also wholly rule out Margaery going on trial, though we can surmise Cersei still will.

So, coming back to... 2.

This is the biggest change, but it's one we sort of all saw coming: there's no Aegon. Take that literally or figuratively, however you wish, for the books -- though it likely means legitimization of the "mummer's dragon." Interestingly, this has a knock-on effect -- it potentially makes Jon Snow expendable. Now, this also makes no sense -- as there's no reason that Varys would want Jorah Mormont exiled if he really was keeping as close tabs on Dany as he's thought to be especially if he's now been plotting to put her on the throne -- unless he thought that Jorah's voice against Varys would really harm him getting into her good graces when he gets there, or that Barristan won't vouch for him.

But if we're going to get an endgame with Tyirion and Dany together -- and we assume that Bran's storyline is actually going anywhere -- then you have two dragonriders and a dragon-warg for the endgame against the Lannisters. Which means... Jon Snow may really be dead.

It also has an interesting wrinkle -- which I can't imagine was Littlefinger's endgame as he saw it but yeah -- in that if Tyrion is a Targaryen, Sansa is the Queen... and has now been trained for it partially by Littlefinger. It also puts, potentially, Arya in an interesting position if she ever makes it back to Westeros....

 

I have a differing opinion: they are not necessarily trying to follow the books. Aegon may simply be cut due to time constraints and budget (BUT GIVE US ALL THE SANDSNAKES PLEASE), for example-- and as he's a late introduction it's better to not introduce him rather than kill off someone prematurely. I'm being generous here. Their reasoning could simply be that Aegon would confuse the poor show viewers and him being nude wouldn't give the typical 16-year-old male a boner. I think trying to figure out where the books are going based on show changes has a faulty premise. We're assuming storytelling competence and assuming these changes make sense, both of which the showrunners have demonstrated they lack.

Oh, also, they don't know everything. GRRM hasn't finished writing the damned thing yet, so they can't possibly know everything. I imagine A Dream of Spring especially only has a rough outline which, like all outlines and especially Gurm's stories, is subject to alteration.

 

That's a fair point, for sure. BUT, it seems like most of the crazy, zany "the showrunners are doing their own thing!" bits came after they had the sit-down with GRRM and are then retooling the show around the generic outline he gave them of where it would end up and then doing the "cut things / streamline to adapt for TV" bits.

There's a decent chance you are 100% correct though and this is all fanfic.

 

Or they're cutting though all the crap and basically naming Aegon fake. They know the ending so they know the general main pieces. Anyone else is secondary. If they don't include people it must be for a reason. Kranys Mo Nokloz is probably not going to be a major player so why include him then?

It's clear after AFFC and ADWD that George has lost the plot, all D and D are doing now is streamlining the process that should have happened 8 years ago. Would I like to read the books before the show? Hell yes. But I know I can't realistically expect that to happen. At least I know I'll actually get SOME kind of ending in 2 years as opposed to maybe never knowing.

 

... which is what I posted above?