Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

Even if Ramsay weren't a particularly terrible person, it doesn't make sense to put Sansa in harm's way like that. The North is a cluster**** (though I guess less so in the show with the complete disappearance of the Ironborn and other Northern lords) and it's uncertain who will retain control. She's still in the Eyrie in the books because it's probably the safest possible place on the entire continent (especially with her true identity remaining hidden for now). Marrying her off to a guy who might be killed by Stannis (though Littlefinger has no reason to count on that) and sending her to a potential battlefield is needlessly dangerous.

 

She is no longer in the Eyrie in the books.

 

I'm not referring to unpublished books, unless I completely forgot her leaving.

Spoiler: Winds of Winter

And I think she's still in the Vale in the sample chapter(s) anyway. Still a lot safer than ****ing Winterfell pre-Stannis/Bolton battle.

EDIT: Oh right, the court left at the end.

 

Yeah, she was going down the mountain with that highborn girl who was around her age or so. Myranda, something like that.

 

Winter makes it difficult to launch an attack anyway.

 

Euron, Randyll, Meribald, young Ned, Robert, Howland to be cast next season: http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-casting-has-begun-and-heres-the-list/

 

So Tower of Joy flashback, I guess. And multiple personality Euron. And the fact that the show forced the most awkward character pairing ever (Stannis and Sam) just to mention Randyll Tarly made it obvious they are intending to cast him.

I am surprised about Meribald. Does that mean I have to watch the show next season? Though given how much they've messed up the Sparrows, I wonder if Meribald won't just be some bigot. Also, Meribald is parted from Brienne at the end of FfC, so it looks like they're really trying to avoid passing the books substantially (Tyrion meeting Dany doesn't count because he's very early to the party).

EDIT: Oh, the supposed Ned/Robert/Howland characters are too young for c. Robert's Rebellion.

 

Hard to believe they've spent 4 seasons setting up Littlefinger as master schemer of Westeros and then have him totally clueless about what's going on in the North.

 

The showrunners said that he had no clue about Ramsay's true nature. In the books, the whole of the North knew about Ramsay's perversions! How does one of the smartest, most cunning people in Westeros not know what a sicko he is?!

 

The show has also skimmed over the issue of the original character of Reek having ever existed, which confused the hell out of me for a while (I only came to the franchise via the shows, halfway through series 3, then read the books), I almost thought that the original 'Reek' was a sort of schizophrenic alter-ego of Ramsay that Roose used as a nickname.

Bookwise, Ramsay's activties with Reek and the treatment of his former wife are thoroughly well-known. In theory, such behaviour of 'the Bastard of Bolton' wouldn't necessarily be such public knowledge in the world of the TV show, except for the fact that they've introduced the character of Miranda - which also suggests that he's had other such accomplices in the past (then grown bored with them). Either way, LF would have some sort of idea of what a monster he is, unless he really doesn't pay attention to Northern matters at all.

Regarding the casting of the three boys for next season, it's obviously for a weirwood vision of Bran's to substitute for the book vision of the young Benjen and Lyanna fighting - I'm thinking it's the young Robert Baratheon, Brandon Stark and Ned. The largest boy might be Hodor, rather than Robert, but the description indicates someone not so freakishly large, and also mentions him as being 'clever'. Hodor, clever? Hodor...
It could also be Brandon, Ned and Benjen, but the description of the youngest boy having green eyes (as Ned does) seems too specific.

Crackpot theory - does anyone hold hope that we might yet see the scene of the Mad King Aerys II executing Rickard and Brandon Stark that was shot for the first episode as a flashback, which would explain why it's never been released as a deleted scene?



That's Sean Bean playing Brandon - unfortunately, there's no other imagery from this scene that's ever been released (it's from an early trailer and only amounts to less than half a second), but an established actor, Liam Burke, was cast as Aerys II, who's apparently in the background of that shot, so it's most likely there's more to it.

 

OK, here's a theory: Show LF's information and power derives solely from his brothels. His only brothel in the North shut down when it's #1 worker moved south in Season 1, leaving LF clueless about what is going on up there.

 

Everyone loves turnips...

 

He could probably learn a lot more through travelling turnip salesmen compared to his brothel.

 

For the book readers... which major storylines and major characters are missing in the TV show, so far?

 

Depends on how you define "major" (and I assume you don't care about potential spoilers):

-The Greyjoys are probably the most major. Brothers of Balon (who's supposed to be dead by now)-- Euron, Victarion, and Aeron. Plus Asha shouldn't have disappeared.
-The Ironborn under Euron Greyjoy taking their war to the south, notably starting an invasion of the Reach.
- "Griff" (Jon Connington, one of the Mad King's former Hands) and "Young Griff" (supposedly Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar), who traveled with Tyrion.
-Lady Stoneheart
-Every single Northern lord. The Mormonts, the Umbers, the Karstarks, the Dustins, the Glovers, the Manderlys (who play the most major role). While cutting down their roles is understandable, them not even having token appearances or mentions makes the North seem very empty and worthless.
-Stannis liberates some Northern castles from the Ironborn so as to bring in Northern allies.
-Brienne isn't at Winterfell in the books. Mance was not burned (someone else was burned in his place) and Jon Snow sent him to rescue who he thought was Arya.
-Sam, Gilly, and Aemon are sent by Jon to Oldtown (a major city in the Reach and location of the maester headquarters) so Sam can train to be the Watch's maester. Aemon dies on the journey.
-There are many characters missing from Cersei's court. In the show, most of the Council positions seem vacant. That is not the case in the books.
-Jaime doesn't go to Dorne in the books. He goes to the Riverlands to help mop up the aftermath of the war. He helps negotiate the ends of sieges to Riverrun among other die-hard Robb Stark-supporting castles.
-Arianne Martell, princess of Dorne and Doran Martell's eldest, is missing and was the main driver of the Dorne plot.
-Myrcella traveled to Dorne with a Kingsguard named Arys Oakheart as her protector. He's gone.
-The Dorne plot in the books makes more sense overall.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things.

 

It makes no sense that Littlefinger doesn't know. In explaining the need for the marriage, the scene starts with Ramsay bragging that he flayed a Northern noble for late taxes. He's proud of the way the news of the event is spreading to scare others. Roose then specifically mentions his infamy, and proposes that they can't rely on such intimidation to hold the North in the long term. It's at this point that he introduces the proposed match. How is Littlefinger literally unaware of sort things that necessitated the union in the first place?

 

Because the writers said so.

 

Spoiler

They seem to have combined Ellaria Sands character with Arianne Martell. And by "combine," I of course mean "let's replace HER personality with a different character's personality because we don't want to actually introduce that character. Even if it means that she's now a COMPLETELY different character than she's supposed to be."

 

Spoiler

Don't forget to add that the change makes the character make zero sense in the context of her surroundings and status in society

 

Recently mentioned casting rumours indicate that the bolded plotlines might crop up in Series 6 in some form:
- I'm guessing that the Ironborn will be included when Asha/Yara simply tries to rally them to rescue Theon, and her uncle Euron or Victarion will complicate matters by seeing it as an opportunity for conquest, no nonsense about trying to ally with Daenerys. Praying that Aeron Damphair and the Kingsmoot won't be a part of it. The Ironborn chapters which weighed down AFFC and ADWD were hardly GRRM's finest work, it was really just page after page of soggy old pirates and one religious crackpot yelling at each other;
- Sam will most likely head off somewhere to train as a maester with Gilly in tow, encountering his family at some point.

There's also Ser Davos' mission to White Harbour, where he's imprisoned by the the Manderleys, and which eventually sees him heading off to Skagos to find Osha and Rickon - something which also might yet happen.

The Dorne plotline has been mangled to the point where it can't really ever resemble what's in the books so far, although Prince Doran's machinations could still happen, the most important aspect being helping to restore the Targaryen dynasty with a marital alliance in order to destroy House Lannister.

The Griff/Young Griff and Lady Stoneheart storylines will probably continue to be rumour fodder until they either happen or the TV show ends.

 

Davos in White Harbor, and what he learns about the Manderlys' true intentions is huge in the books. Instead we'll have Brienne single-handedly saving everyone at Winterfell.

 

I think Brienne's rescue attempt will just be a red herring. Theon and Sansa will escape by themselves, just like Theon and Jeyne did in the book. Brienne will certainly be there trying to help, but she'll get caught and eviscerated by Ramsay after they've jumped off the wall.