Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

Fan fiction at its finest. Will never be in the books none of us will live to read. Kinda cool though.

Suicide Squad Westeros addition

 

Miriedis: Well, what is your basis for GoT probably being the only adaptation we're ever getting? You just said there's going to be a Golden Compass tv show. In other examples, Spider-Man has been rebooted twice already, in the span of less than ten years. Has Martin indicated he won't allow it? Does HBO have the right to remake it? I'm not well read on these matters, so perhaps you have some information I don't have.

 

She's just saying George RR Martin is fat and lazy. He will die before ever finishing more books.

 

Coruscant
He's having a hard time finishing, that's true, but I still don't know if anyone will attempt to re-create Game of Thrones, given its immense popularity. The Golden Compass was a controversial movie that angered both book purists and casual moviegovers and barely made back its budget. The Spider-Man films were popular enough, but they didn't leave a pop-culture impact that makes it hard to re-adapt them, obviously. Game of Thrones is one of the most popular (and most expensive) TV shows of all time that heavily influenced the genre and set new standards for television, both in terms of budget and scale. It would be like someone trying to re-make the original Star Wars trilogy with new leads for the main 3 (yes, I'm aware of all the spinoffs and IV-VI similarities in the Disney trilogy. But people would riot if they said "we're going to re-create A New Hope, shot-for-shot, with new actors playing Luke and Han and Leia, because we want better CGI for the action scenes".) That's honestly how I feel Game of Thrones is going to end up. A ton of spinoffs and prequels, but no one wants to try to re-create the original, simply because of both budget woes and fan reactions. It's simply too big, too popular this time around to try to do it better.

 

GrandAdmiralJello, per The World of Ice and Fire, one of the early Targaryens (Maegor, I'm pretty sure), engaged in polygamous marriage. It was disapproved of but not illegal. There's no indication anything's changed so that a Targaryen couldn't lawfully take multiple wives.

And the Kingsguard's behavior at the Tower of Joy (completely dismissing Viserys and insisting their place, as Kingsguard, is at the Tower of Joy) is only explainable through Jon's legitimacy. Sorry, but Jon's legitimate.

 

Not to put words in Iello's mouth, but I think his problem is not that Jon is legitimate (that was obviously coming as soon as R+L=J was confirmed) but how he's legitimate.

As I said in the show thread, I've always been a bit skeptical of how Martin could explain this in the books, so I'm willing to give the show some slack.

Maybe coming up with a suitable explanation for Iello is why Martin can't finish the books.

 

I think the explanation is as simple as that Rhaegar just married Lyanna too. Maegor is the evidence that nothing technically said he couldn't. His issue through her would be as legitimate as his issue through Elia.

 

Other question: why are Maesters performing weddings?

 

To be fair, this was the first time -- and only the very first time -- I felt anything between Jon and Dany, when she was giving him the Nala-eyes I think when he basically said "I'm a king and I'm going..."

Oh she just can't wait to get King...

 

There's historical precedent for anulling consumated marriages (see Henry VIII) so I'm not really sure where the problem lies. All we know at the moment is that it happened via a Septon (not a Maester), not the details or the justification that Rhaegar used. Elia being unable to bear more children and especially a third head of the dragon is a pretty compelling point in Rhaegar's favour, aside from him being the prince of the realm.

 

Which they they will. Of course they will. There is zero chance of that not happening eventually. It'll be at least two decades after Lucas has died, but it's going to happen. Guaranteed.

Hopefully we'll get an animated musical version first, though.

 

I hate every Lannister I see, from Lord Tywin-to Grace Cersei...

 

Depends if they're lifting from canon or common law.

If the former, then annulment would not render children born of the voided union illegitimate.

 

I'm not drawing on any particular example. Having said that, the daughters of Louis VII and Eleanor of Aquitaine spring to mind.

Still, canon law is canon law. The children of an annulled marriage aren't retroactively created bastards. While the sacramental marriage "never existed", the putative one did, and the children were conceived in good faith.

Certainly doesn't have to be the case in Westeros. Just pointing out that it could be.

 

Maybe Dany's got something, but Jon certainly doesn't. The camera specifically panned to Jorah giving Dany a passion-filled stare as they pushed the boat off...while Jon never looked back. Jon just doesn't seem too into Dany. He's always squinting or looking a little sour. It's not that they need to be sighing and cooing over one another, but he needs to seem a little less uncomfortable and unhappy if it's gonna work.
Again, I'm annoyed that I'm feeling this way, but it feels so much more natural with Sansa. They smile. They grin at each other. Their shared looks have more depth. They share their pain and their arguments still carry an undertone of respect and trust. Jon is weirdly awkward around her, in a charming way: "I like the wolf bit," from when Sansa made a new dress, for example. Just go re-watch those scenes and see how much more expressive Jon is with her than he is with Dany. Some of that may be sibling closeness, but they were never close as children...and I cant think of many siblings who give each other such long, lingering looks after a forehead kiss (and did Jon look at her lips??) I don't like to harp on shipping stuff like this, but when the writers are just trying to cram Jon and Dany down our throats with so little chemistry and development...it's just hellishly annoying. Also...the incest. First cousins is normal in this setting. Only Targaryens practiced closer incest, and look what happened to them...

Oh, and did I mention that when Jon left Winterfell, he looked back for Sansa? And he's still wearing the cloak she made for him, even down South.

 

You want Disney to buy this francise too?!?

I feel conflicted here because the book-me and the TV-me are of two different minds. In the books I didn't feel Jorah and Dany hit it off (oddly! For once the show did it better!). He was more pushy, even physically, and not as respectful of what she wanted. Jorah in the show is the true knight in armor in every way, except age (which isn't as noticeable as the books).

Jon and Sansa... I sort of wish there were a few more scenes between them. I can see it, but they're so hell-bent on this Ice/Fire Jon/Dany thing that it gets in the way of everything. (The drawings in the cave scene was basically the last straw for me... I mean good sappy gravy... sheesh.)

 

Consummation legitamizes a marriage. It doesn't follow that once consummated, a marriage is impossible to de-legitamize. Also we can't assume that the particular High Septon involved didn't apply some personal discretion to this case. Which is another variable in play. In conclusion it's far too rigid to say that something of this nature "can't be done" just bcs it's rare, exceptional or even unprecedented.

 

Oh I don't care about Jorah and Dany as a couple. I'm just saying that Jorah, who's obviously in love with Dany, specifically was shown to be looking back at her. Then there's Jon, who's supposed to be falling madly in love with her, who is shown getting the hell out of dodge while he still can and never looks back. Kind of undercuts the epic romance.
And I feel like Jon/Sansa is still alive in some way, because they can't stop talking about each other. Jon tenses like a bird waiting to strike whenever someone mentions her (and nearly chokes out Theon, too) and Sansa spends half her screentime defending him and their choices together, and wishing he was around. They're still constantly on each other's minds, and considering how much they're steamrolling towards the finale, any line spared towards their relationship, platonic or definitely not, is a godsend for me.

 

When you're waiting for Sunday so you can deploy your usual, fury-fueled rant about the new leaked episode:

 

doesn't it get boring after awhile?

 

Every episode rejuvenates my hate

 

i too live to hate.