Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Azor_Ahai/Theories

 

I'm also horrified that the show-writers have now made me not care about Lyanna Stark in any capacity. I already didn't like Rhaegar because the dude eloped with a 15/16 year old girl while his wife and children waited at home, abduction or love or whatever the situation was. But LYANNA? I already held some measure of pity for her. I thought Rhaegar promised her the world--that her children would be legitimized, would have a place in line for the throne behind Aegon and Rhaenys. That Elia would be queen, but she would hold Rhaegar's heart. I thought she was a lovestruck girl that was played by an older, more experienced man.

And here she is, marrying for love, happily going along with Rhaegar's plan, knowing what this would all do to Elia and her children, and to the Realm as a whole? That either she chose to name her baby after Elia's dead son, or went along with the request from Rhaegar?? My god...

I still hold Rhaegar accountable, TRUST ME. but I never knew how much I'd hate Lyanna Stark. I hope her last moments were full of regret and guilt.

 

Elia has been terribly wronged this whole series. It is inexcusable what was done to her. I hope they are all held to account for their wickedness. The Long Night befalling them would not be enough.

 

I freely admit to being behind on my theories. Which one is this?

Amazing.

 

that either bran is the night king or at least the night king has similar powers and/or visions of the future. in any case, they were shown hauling the huge chains in earlier episodes and the night king was clearly saving his javelins for when the dragon showed up so one way or another they knew they were coming. it's probably not a coincidence either that the walkers suddenly became active again after thousands of years right around the same time that dragons became active again.

 

Given that they copied fan art of the "Night King" riding an "ice dragon" and generally devote the show to dumb fanservice, I would not be surprised if they went with this explanation for an empty character they named after a completely different person.

 

But that doesn't make sense if the Long Night was 8,000 years ago and the last dragons died out less than 200 years ago. And White Walkers were active beyond the Wall before Dany's dragons hatched.

Amazing.

 

oh i know, it's pretty flimsy and doesn't necessarily make a ton of sense. but if the night king can see the future in terms of when and where the dragons will show up north of the wall then it follows that he could see when they would hatch and start putting his plans in motion. or something. i'm kind of reaching here.

 

Sam says in Storm of Swords I think that he figures the 8,000 years thing is a gross exaggeration by the Andals (the First Men who actually participated not really having a writing system) and events really happened a lot more recently. I think he's probably on the right track. Who knows? Maybe the Long Night is contemporary with the rise of Valyria or dragons themselves. I don't believe we'll ever find out the facts for sure.

 

On the Aegon thing... Lyanna did name Jon after the other Aegon was killed.

As for the White Walkers deciding to take a Dragon now... isn't the Red Comet (the "bleeding star") supposed to have changed things and signaled the end is coming? That is in the show and the books. In the books, it's hypothesized that the "bleeding star" might have been a key ingredient in causing the dragons to be hatched. The last time a meteor is mentioned is back in the Dawn Age, when a meteor fell to the ground near Yi Ti and Asshai, and led to the first Other / White Walker invasion, which the Yi Ti blamed on the Bloodstone Emperor killing his sister the Empress and usurping her place. It also seems that book-Euron has a piece of a meteor (either the ancient one in Stygai, or the new one that might have fallen in Valyria) under his eyepatch and it seems to give him a supernatural aura. So I'm not sure if the show will cover why now, but the magic from these bloodstone meteors seems to be the key in ushering in a new age in the world of Ice and Fire.

There's even a theory that the White Walkers knew the new meteor was coming, and would lead to great evil among humanity again. And that could also be part of the reason why the Dragons came back. Both are to combat the evil that will come from the new meteor. And show-Euron will now presumably be passing by Valyria again in his journey to get the Golden Company... it won't be the first time the show did things out of order.

In the books, the Three-Eyed Raven can see things without weirwoods or animals, he looks out at Melisandre through the fire (and that scares Melisandre)... and Melisandre wonders if either the Three-Eyed Raven or the "wolf boy" near him is the Great Other, the ultimate enemy, of ice.

 

I wonder if Cersei hiring the Golden Company could mean we might see Daario again, if he decided to return to his mercenary ways. And when he learns he's been hired to fight against Dany, he'll turn the tables on Cersei near the end of next season.

 

Which is nonsensical and bizarre. "Oh, I'm name my child after my skull-was-recently-crushed-by-a-warhammer lover's son-with-another-woman even though he just now got his brain splattered all over a wall next to his raped mother's corpse."

What he was doing was essentially telepathy, same as he did with Bran in his dreams. And they've only been shown to transcend time through weirwoods.

 

Nonsensical?? It's a famous Targaryan name. Both kids were probably named after Aegon I. Perhaps he also named Jon as a tribute to the son he lost.

 

It's not that nonsensical or bizarre, it's happened in real life.
She may have taken pity when she heard what happened to Aegon, combined with wanting big things for her son.

 

Good point, it may've been only Lyanna's decision.

 

And how many of Walder Frey's descendants were also named Walder?

 

I'm loath to say that Season 7 has been the 'worst' series of GoT so far - S5 was messy, with some really stupid stuff in it, particularly the Dornish plotline - but it's easily been the most predictable, by-the-numbers and least enjoyable. The show has really suffered without GRRM's material to base it on. Dumb & Dumber might have a handful of broad strokes and an endgame provided to them, but their attempts at filling in the gaps themselves so far has fallen very flat.

The handling of the entire R+L=J situation has been clumsy, to say the least. I quite enjoyed the Tower of Joy scene handled in flashback in S6, and there wasn't much wrong with that brief wedding scene in last night's finale, but how they're trying to fit it into the show's narrative doesn't make a heap of sense, except to provide an excuse for exposition.
A couple of episodes ago, Gilly read out an account from a maester's diary recounting the annulment of Rhaegar and Elia's marriage without knowing what it meant, but Sam wasn't paying any attention, it didn't register and they both packed up and left the Citadel.
Now, suddenly, Sam bursts in on Bran with the information as if it's something he's been travelling night and day to reveal to the folks at Winterfell. Could there have been a deleted scene with him realising what Gilly found?

Plus, if Bran's aware of 'everything', including that Jon is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, why isn't he aware of the annulment? Because television, so we could see the flashback, that's why.

As for Jon's real name being Aegon, that's just a bit confusing, although it might be an attempt at including the otherwise abandoned Aegon (aka Faegon) plotline from the books. I preferred the claim from Empire magazine that his birth name was Jaeherys - it's a less predictable Targaryen name, though still very authentic, and also a nod to Jaeherys I, The Concilliator.

Oh well. Sounds as if we won't get S8 until 2019, so hopefully (braces for skepticisim) we'll finally have TWoW before then.

 

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bjjp4a/winds-of-winter-neural-network?utm_source=tcpfbus

 

There are real life precedents for naming people after deceased elder siblings, but 1. I'm pretty sure they usually died of natural causes, and 2. There is no precedent in ASOIAF that I know of despite many detailed noble family trees. It's not the same thing as naming a child after an ancestor. And I don't see why Lyanna would choose that name; if she chose a Targ name, it would be Rhaegar since she would likely be more upset over his death and probably thought highly of him.

But this doesn't matter because they clearly just named him after the character they cut or they were too lazy to use the many other documented Targ/Valyrian names.

 

I'd be careful making definitive proclamations in the absence of the books. This is just as likely to be his Martin-stamped name as not.

 

It's more idiotic to think it's from the books given the show's history of taking a giant, long dump on them for the past 4-5 seasons. It's like using Wonder Woman to learn about World War I.

Edit: The name Aegon also doesn't make sense in terms of the story and themes. Like I said before, Aegon the Conqueror has nothing to do with the Long Night and the prophecies regarding Azor Ahai and the prince that was promised. There is also a character in the books who is claiming to be Aegon, son of Rhaegar. What's the point of the confusion in having two contemporary Aegon Targaryens who are sons of Rhaegar? (Regarding the Walders, the whole point is that it's stupid and confusing.)

 

double post

 

If Jon and Dany do have a kid (or kids), and Jon is still around to name them, Aemon is probably at the top of his list (Jaehaerys and Rhaegar would also be nice). Though I'd kind of expect a daughter.


Watch the last episode be a flash-forward to 40 years in the future, at the funeral of King Jon/Aegon... with the child of Jon/Dany married to the child of Jaime/Cersei

 

Aemon would have significance for Jon and it would make sense as a name Rhaegar would want. I would be happy with that. But I'm still not convinced he even has a Targ name.

 

I kinda suspect that whatever his name is, if he has one, they either pulled an Asha/Osha and changed it because they didn't want people confusing Jon-Aemon with Aemon-Aemon or something, or they just replaced an obscure/"weird" Targaryen name like Jaehaerys or Daeron with a well-known Targaryen name that the audience would immediately grasp.