PT A Thread For Prequel Fans To Discuss New Star Wars Content (spoiler tags required)

Regardless of other factors this is a crucial difference between TPM critics & TFA critics. TPM received its criticism only after people saw it & formed their opinions. TPM had its chance to win over most of the audience. Only after that did it start to cop a beating.

All I can do is post that again & say it can just as easily be applied to alot (perhaps not all) of the PT criticism from outside groups or people.

 

↑ More than that Cryo, I think he's made it his mission in life to keep PT fans in check, to prevent us from outright gushing over the prequels.

 

Nearly all of my posts in the PT forum are in this thread. A thread strictly about new content. So that makes no sense.

 

Here's my answer: what JJ Abrams did to Star Trek still gets under my skin and I don't want to see him go anywhere near Star Wars. I never did -- when they announced the new film, I posted on how I hoped he wouldn't be chosen (I wanted Spielberg or Guillermo del Toro). You know why? Because JJ Abrams absolutely destroyed Trek for me. And, before you think I'm blinded by nostalgia, I saw Trek 2009 before I saw Star Trek TOS. In fact, I didn't watch TOS for a long time because I hated the 2009 film so much.

I hate what he did to James T. Kirk -- turning him from a capable, mature, romantic at heart captain into peeping tom fratboy. I hate what he did to Spock -- turning Spock from a character who was generally kind and internalized his own hatred of his emotions but wasn't afraid to challenge/rile up McCoy into a petty bully. Spock bringing up Kirk's dead father, barring Uhura from the Enterprise to cover his butt about their relationship, and throwing Kirk off the darn ship just for disagreeing with him are still actions I can never see TOS Spock doing. Even Uhura was changed for the worse -- arguing with Spock about her placement in the middle of an emergency of all things.

I can also see how he lifted huge parts of the plot of that film straight from ANH without keeping any of the warmth of whimsy of that film. Instead he turned Star Trek into "High School....IN SPACE!" What a goddamn waste.

Add to that that people say "Trek 2009 is a better Star Wars film than the prequels!" and I think "No! It's really not! This is not what I want TFA to be like -- I will hate it."

Trek 2009 is a horrible Trek film and it would also make an absolutely terrible Star Wars film, IMO.

No, you're not joking. Not at all.

These kinds of comments are basically how you've been treating people here forever. Here's where I'm going to give you my very honest opinion Darth Downunder: I think you're a troll. I think you're a troll because you rarely seem to have anything nice to say about the prequels or George Lucas and yet, based on your posting history, you spend a vast majority of your time here. If you were a PT fan who regularly posted positively (as well as occasionally pointing out those thing that you don't like about the PT) but also an Abrams fan, I might believe your position that you "don't understand why people spend so much time discussing what they hate." But I don't. Because that is what you do here -- your posts on the PT are overwhelmingly more negative than positive.

Moreover, your arguments reek of wanting PT fans disappointed with Abrams to "get back in line," so to speak. When you say something like this "Of the people who discuss TFA, that is in the TFA forum & in other parts of the forums including this thread, I'd guess there are 80-90% of fans who are talking about what they like &/or what they hope to like about this movie." I wonder what your point is? So other people like what they've seen of the movie? So what? I'm not going there are telling them that they're idiots. I respect their opinions. I just disagree - what I've seen has often made me worried and wary of the new films and the direction they're taking Star Wars in. But I don't go on the TFA forums and start posting again and again about how TFA is going to suck. Just like I don't go to originaltrilogy.com and tell them to stop hating the PT and ask them why they hate them so much and tell them to "let it go."

Plus, being worried about about a film's direction is reasonable when it's based off precedent, comments made, and some of the new footage.

Reasons I'm worried about TFA: I hugely dislike Abrams previous work (precedent), the comments made have not alleviated my fears (the marketing focusing on "practical effects" as though the PT didn't have those, Lucas saying they threw out his treatments, Lucas' name not being on the poster, etc.) and new footage (the aesthetic I've seen is too similar to the OT for my taste, I'd rather Abrams not move the camera quite so much, Han Solo focus, etc.)

I'm going to see the film. But if you want my honest opinion, the marketing and the footage released so far has, in large part, just made me more worried about the film rather than alleviating my concerns. And I'm not going to lie about that. Nor have I ever asked that people who dislike the PT lie about their feelings about it -- I just ask them why they post here of all places when there are so, so many areas of the internet that welcome those disappointed in the PT. Because, while I'm worried about TFA, I don't go on the TFA boards to endlessly remind people about what aspects I didn't like. And there's the difference.

 

Well I posted this earlier, but it mysteriously got lost. So I'll repost it. Since this thread was supposed to be a discussion about new content (as the OP alluded to) but has descended in to nothing but JJ and Disney 'bashing'. I'll share this with you. And my sentiments exactly. Enjoy

 

^^^^ Thanks - again I have real difficulty finding critical views of these movies on youtube, it can take hours of clicking to find them.

"George Lucas could't direct traffic " - Ha ha - I didn't know Mark Kermode was not a fan ?!

I'm glad he's around to tell us these things. I'm sure the professor will soon be back plugging into the computer to tell us how Star Wars can be fixed.

 

Why would you post this?

 

I have to echo cryo's sentiment. Why do you care about people like me...? Why do you spend so much time replying to me (and other's) who are negative about TFA....? What is it about this that you just can't simply walk away and ignore it...? You and thejeditraitor...

I am a 40 year old, factory worker. I have a wife and three kids, a house, a few cars, one kid is in college...A new Kitten... anything else? I like to take walks with the family, go to hockey games, I guess I am just an evil person because I don't like what I hear and see about TFA... Maybe I should leave out the part where I club baby harbor seals, or purposely burn fossil fuels for no reason other than to pollute the environment. Would that make you feel better?

I'm just trying to get this over with, because you are actually exhibiting rather unhealthy behavior (borderline stalker) in not being able to walk away from this thread, not beng able to walk away from us, when it (and us) obviously bothers you so much...

It's absolutely amazing you can't see the irony in asking/criticizing people why they continue to post about something that they clearly don't like....

 

Overt JJ and Disney critique. So, here's your flip side. Just because...

 

You forgot...




Edit: But just to state the obvious, nicely said, and nicely done!

 

Jcuk Where is the little animation for a facepalm so violent, your brains end up splattered over the wall behind you ?

 

Are you American? That would explain the total misunderstanding of irony

 

No - so how about you explain it to me? Oh, no , wait...are you posting that because it's 'ironic' that while most here would disagree strongly with Kermodes 'bashing' - that it exactly what is happening here now !?! Is that it !!! ???

I hope so because maybe finally it will sink in eh?

Well I'm glad YOU are around to tell us these things.

Now where is that emojie ?

 

Let's calm down a bit here even if some of the attacks being tossed around right now were provoked.

 

(Deep breath)

 

It is funny how the TFA is getting treated like Anakin being the choosen one, Many hope this film will "restore" Star Wars but the prophecy coulde be misread, and just like with Anakin there are some red flags poping up to be concerned about.

 

You were supposed to destroy CGI, not embrace it! You were my brother, J.J. I loved you.

 

This has nothing to do here at all.

I've watched some of Mark Kermode reviews in the past. That guy, when he's doing reviews on the radio, he does it in a way so he can enlarge his audience, like doing reviews was a great show. And he's not the only one, I've seen many people doing it in other radio stations, especially what we are calling here, in Canada, radio-trash. That doesn't only concern movie reviews, it can be also related to a wide variety of subjects (politics, society, etc...). He's only getting paid by sharing his opinion.

Before he did his review on the radio, he had a discussion with Tom Paulin, who has done a lot of work in literary and social critic, during the Newsnight Review on BBC during the premier of ROTS. While Tom Paulin has raised many interesting points about the movie, Mark Kermode was, somehow (that's my perception) more aggressive, denying immediately what Tom Paulin was talking about. You can listen to what Tom Paulin said from 2:52:

 

Oh that's great I remember that at the time - I was eager to see how an 'art film' panel would react and was shocked by Paulin's response.

i thought - you see - it's easy - come at it with no baggae - either hate for Lucas, or skepticism that such a film should even be a Cannes and it plays out well enough.

I'm so glad you found it.

 

Guys, let me remind you of the ignore function. No reason to deal with obvious baiters when you can just ignore them. Let's not allow this thread to be closed.

I wonder why someone keeps spending so much of their time coming to the forum apparently just to play devil's advocate with people he feels are wasting their time. Isn't that also kind of ridiculous?

Here are my reasons for coming here:
--I want to learn about new content. I could go other places, but I can get it here too, and it's easier to find because there are fewer posters.
--I like that I can say negative things as well as positive things. In 7SA, people jump all over you for being negative.
--I don't want to ruin the experience for those in 7SA. Many there clearly want to enjoy just being hyped about TFA, and criticism just harshes their mellow.
--I like that it's easier to get into criticism of the film aspects here.
--I like it that we can talk about the Anti-PT, Anti-GL aspects of the marketing. Many of those in 7SA dismiss that those aspects even exist.
--I like the people here more. I don't even know most of the posters in 7SA. Many are new and there are too many of them.
--I feel bad for those who feel they don't want to go to TFA because of Disney's approach (most notably tossing GL's treatments). I respect their feelings, and I want to express that I understand where they are coming from, while in the other places, they receive ridicule.

Well, I do make a distinction between criticism and bashing (mean-spirited, impolite, meant to anger) in the paragraph before this one, but here's what I would say.

Yes, people should try not to become more than mildly upset at even the harshest of comments and mildly annoyed at the 16-year-long hate parade directed at the PT by the media-geek-internet complex. Human beings are irrational creatures, and sometimes we get too involved, but it's not healthy to be consumed by anger. Many here have recognized that fact, vented, and then cooled down. PT-haters haven't cooled down after 16 years.

However, I would add, when someone states his opinion, it's perfectly fine to voice your opinion expressing why you disagree with it. Joss Whedon said that TESB was an incomplete movie. That's his opinion. I disagree with it, and I stated why.

It's also perfectly fine to criticize (critique) the involvement of known PT-dislikers/haters in Star Wars films (they might not understand Star Wars the way we do) or the wisdom of including them in the marketing of the films (as their inclusion is meant to appeal to a bunch of somewhat maladjusted people who can't let go of their anger towards a bunch of films after 16 years) or the issues of professional decorum of their inclusion (given the disrespect including some of them shows towards Lucas).

So, yes, opinions are fine, and opinions about opinions are fine, and opinions about opinions about opinions are fine, but feeling threatened by differing opinions is better to be avoided, it shows that you aren't totally your own person, and it's self-defeating: fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

So, guys, let go of your hate. 16 years is too long. Jeez, you've been consumed by the dark side almost as long as Vader was.

 

+1

 

Darth Nerdling Very well said!

 

I've finally got some time in order to finish the reading of this article.

I have to say, that was very interesting. It kinds of reassuring me concerning the new movie. I'm looking forward to it.

 

Even if TFA sucks, we'll still have the sequels and the spin-offs under different directors.

 

Great article. I'm definitely excited to see what TFA brings.