PT A Thread For Prequel Fans To Discuss New Star Wars Content (spoiler tags required)

Oh don't remind me!!! It would be interesting if there were a failed attempt at resurrection;beyond that.... Anyway the theory is just a little too much and kind of belittles-for lack better word-the ideas that make Kylo potentially interesting, specially if indeed he is an echo of Revan as some seem to think. I'm willing not to rule anything out at this point though. If there's anything TCW taught me is that anything can happen. What I find ironic is that I've been contemplating the idea of Kylo being Anakin's son
for a fic over the past few days...

 

Apparently there's a chance we get a full http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/10/is-the-full-trailer-for-star-wars-the-force-awakens-coming-on-october-19th.html][/url] trailer on Oct 19th.

On a related note...Why was the release date for the FTA moved to December? Never understood it.

 

This is encouraging and might be true as I've heard it from several different sources.

It was never moved, but there were talks of a move to a more traditional May release, but Abrams specifically asked for more time, so December remained.

 

Lets hope so!!!

Oh didn't know that, thanks. I hope the extra time is justified.

 

This is very interesting, and this guy is real sharp for figuring this out, but it might not be as complicated as this guy is imagining it.

Spoiler

They could have given him that name simply by using the info we already assume -- that he is the grandson of Anakin and Padme.

Here's my thinking: If you use the word "grandson" paired with "Skywalker," the name you get is "Ybyjddyr, and if you use the word "grandson" paired with "Anakin," then the name you get is "Geaxlfoa." Since Geaxlfoa and Ybyjddyr aren't very catchy names, they probably decided to try the word "son" next, and with that, you get "Kyl." Then, they probably added the "O" because they thought the name Kyl sounded too much like Kill or Kyle. So, probably, all the name refers to is Kylo's grandparents -- Anakin and Padme -- which is what everyone guessed in the first place.

 

Cool! I hope it's true! If so, I cross my fingers and hope for the best! (I have no idea why it put this in the quote box)

 

When Darth Disney bought Lucasfilm back in 2012 they announced Episode VII for 2015.

Rumor has it they were planning on May 2015, makes sense, but with Arndt they got behind or whatever it is happened. It'd be pretty embarrassing for Disney if theydidn't stick with their intended year. Nor would it look good. KK and JJ were rumored to have asked Iger to push TFA back to May 2016, but Iger shut them down. Sticking with their 2015 date. So they compromised on December 2015.

 

They probably didn't want it to compete with Captain America: Civil War-- which Disney is also releasing. They're going to release that in May of 2016. With all the Marvel films coming in the future, it makes the calendar crowded.

After that, Rogue 1 gets the December 2016 slot, Ep. 8 is getting the summer opening slot in 2017, and Avengers 3 is getting the summer opening slot in 2018. So, they seem to be switching back and forth with either a Star Wars or Marvel film getting the prime slot opening the winter or summer films seasons.

 

may would have been much too soon. jj fought for more time to do the film right. hence tfa being the first sw film to come out in december rather than may like all the others.

 

That's too bad. I thought Dec. wasn't going to work at first...but now it looks like it will work in their favor. I guess I'm not used to seeing the Saga through a business lense.

Is going be a bit weird seeing future SW movies fallow this pattern...

Thanks for the info guys.

 

I just want to say that the official stance of Lucasfilm on the subject of the Stormtroopers has always been that they were clones even on the Toys themselves. Here is proof: http://starwarscollector.com/hd-pho...-the-force-orange-stormtrooper-card-back.html

I grew up playing with that since I was 5 and 6 years old. Im 25 now. It was more than 5 years before the big bad PT was released. Ok? Does that bring the anti anything Lucas ever says, pro anything the now officially Un-cannon, expired EU crowd back down to reality at all? On second thought please dont answer that.

And Lucas has always said they were Clones and some way tied into the Clone Wars and Boba Fett since the time the OT was in production as well as in the original novelization the Episode 5. One of the biggest selling points of AOTC was that it was the movie that was going to explain "where the Stormtroopers came from" and they came from Kamino which is a "Storm Planet" speaking to George's dry sense of humor as well as the whole "amino acid genetics" aspect to it. This is all reinforced yet again in The Force Unleashed 2.

Yet another one of the whole entire points/themes of "fathers and sons" in the OS is in the Clones story and how they were first led by the Jedi (honorable) and were given names and then were led by the evil human Imperial officers that called them by serial numbers (TK-4217 why aren't you are your post?) and how that also contributed to the "goofyness" of the OT era Stormtroopers.

Its actually ironic because what Lucas did was SAVE your precious stormtroopers by giving them excellent ample reasons why they can come off as goofy onscreen in the OT all while staying very true to the original backstory he had toyed with for them specifically since the early 1980's.

Now that being said here is the best part: There still certainly are plenty of human enlistees. It is a blend. Of both Clones and enlistees. Enlistees that go on and become the officers that we see that came from Academy's like the one Luke wanted to join in ANH.

There is also the whole head bump blooper that was turned into a clone tie-in Easter egg to be "spotted" by the audience by Lucas adding the "clunk" sound that Jango's helmet made in his headbump in AOTC. Guys. there is too much evidence and its all too official. The Stormtroopers in the OT are Clones with imperial enlistees fighting by their side. All controlled by and loyal to Palpatine. The Empire.

We know there might be some old now "Legends" EU books that might imply otherwise, but they are Legends now and whats official is official. Not fanfilms. Not fan edits. not practically illegal bootlegs or stale old fan-fic among people who call themselves "purists" but the OS by George Lucas. By what he spent decades saying over and over again and what he made cannon in his official film Saga.

 

Far from being "proof" that toy just adds to the mystery by implying the clone theory was just "speculation" , even in-universe! Well that's as clear as mud. Thanks for nothing Kenner.

Anyway, not sure why you want to re-stoke this discussion but we already established that Lucas believes there were a combination of various clones & recruits while the new canon version is now recruits only. It's all been settled.

 

Well Lucas went back and forth on the subject and has made statements supporting all 3 main theories. In 2004 it was him who ordered Hasbro (parent company of Kenner) to give all the imp figures removable helmets to show off Jango clone heads starting with the gunners. The card back of the 2004 version of the stormtrooper figures says they are cloned humans.

 

OT era stormtroopers with Jango heads stated? Haven't heard of those. Do you have some info?

 

Its the Hasbro figure line. In 2006, with the Death Star Gunner, they started giving all the Stormtrooper/TIE Pilot/Snowtrooper etc figures clone heads.

http://www.rebelscum.com/tsc041DSgunner.asp

http://www.rebelscum.com/VTSCSnow.asp

http://www.rebelscum.com/TAC20storm.asp

 

The last ones are supposed to be clones. The others don't seem to say that. Anyway that backs up the GL view that some ST's were clones incl some Jango clones. I guess the new toy editions will say they're recruits.

 

posts "power of the force" as proof. lol. fail.

 

How is it a fail? The POTF2 Orange Carded Stormtrooper is proof of a continuing narrative about the OT Stormtroopers that started back in the late 70's or early 80's when the LFL magazine first appeared.

Now did Lucas change the narrative slightly to appease the overly nitpickey fans that want to fuss over height differences? Yes it seems he did, but, the previous narrative is still intact, that the vast majority of OT era stormtroopers are some kind of cloned trooper.

If you went out to the general audience, not super fans like us, and told them that stormtroopers were clones the vast majority would understand it because it fits the narrative from the movies, the republic turned into the Empire so everything else followed suit, ie clone troopers of the republic turned in the stormtroopers of the Empire. The general audience isn't going to study the height of the stormtroopers to make the argument against clones because they can't get over themselves enough to stretch their imagination just a little. Thus why Lucas made a statement to appease certain fans.

The POTF2 Stormtrooper is no more a fail than the MTV interview in that it is proof of what was an official narrative for 30+ years.

 

It "failed" bcs it didn't even say the ST's were clones, just that it had been speculated in-universe that they might be.

Actually the evidence uncovered in our discussion on this showed that Lucas willingly decided that the ST's included recruits to help explain the obvious decrease in competence between the clones of the PT & the OT troops. He seems to very much like that explanation since he stated it several times, even internally to LFL staff.

No that narrative isn't intact. It's redundant to the official canon & how the stormtroopers will be portrayed in future SW content. It wasn't even clearly established in the older canon. It's only intact as head canon for those who wish to hold onto their own perceived versions of the story. Much like people who still want to believe in Thrawn or Mara Jade. They're welcome to do so but those facts & events aren't part of the future of Star Wars. Who knows, maybe there are even some ANH die-hards stuck in 1977 who refuse to accept that Vader is Luke's father. "That's just something those spin-off movies came up with".

The story changes & evolves but if people want to believe in their own version they're free to do so.

 

And again, the whole entire point of Episode 2 Attack of the Clones was to be central to the origin story of the Stormtroopers, the Clone Wars and Boba Fett. Those are the 3 things that the film exists to officially explain. Like George Lucas himself says in the official commentary featured on the Blu-ray Box Set of the Star Wars Film Saga: "I was most excited in going back and doing a prequel because I wanted to tell the original backstory of how a democratic Republic turned into an evil Empire and how a good person, turned bad."

Thats also why the Stormtroopers on Coruscant were overtaken by the coruscant people and thrown off the buildings like we seen in the ending celebration montage in Episode 6. Because If they were "unquestionably Loyal" to The Emperor when The Emperor got killed by Vader (the chosen one) most of the Stormtroopers became "lost and confused" enough for the overtaking of the capital world we see in ROTJ at the end. It adds more of an explanation as to why they would be celebrating on coruscant so easily so soon right after the battle of Endor rounding out the whole Saga nicely.

See...its nice when you just accept SW for what George Lucas made it be.

 

Oh not the Clones again!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys you know both stances can/do co-exist right? There are and will be bigger continuity issues than this...what matters at the end the the day is how one interprets things. Being so hung-up on this is beyond me to be honest.

 

& yet the story doesn't need to be so inflexible as to have clones as the only type of troops for the next 30 years. Lucas expressed multiple times the idea that over time the pool of men used as stormtroopers was diluted by lesser clones & recruits. He said it became politicized & the Empire essentially took short cuts to satisfy the massive demand for more troops. He seems to like this theory as it matches up nicely with the decrease in competence of the troopers across both trilogies. If you're such a Lucas fan why not pay attention to what he says?

 

I don't agree that the stormtroopers in the OT, are less competent than the troops in the PT. The first time we see stormtroopers they are blowing away rebel troopers. While in the PT, we see clones miss Organa who should have been an easy target.

One thing to keep in mind is that the extras who played the stormtroopers in the OT we're bumbling around because they couldn't see and the armor restricting, their movement. This caused the extras to constantly trip, fall, and bump into things thoughout the filming of the OT. This is one reason Lucas went with CGI, with the PT troops instead of extras in armor, better control and less filming problems for a better portrayal. The stormtroopers are Star War's equivalent to the Sardakar, of Dune.

 

Overall the clones were far more competent that the stormtroopers & for one obvious reason: in the PT they were on the side of the good guys (until the end of RotS) & in the OT they were the bad guys. You can't have the bad guys constantly taking out the heroes with expert marksmanship. The clones when they were fighting on the side of the Jedi dispatched the Trade Federation armies like a bunch of super soldiers. Then, as you make a good point of highlighting as soon as they switch to being bad guys they can't aim straight at Bail or his speeder from 20 feet away. Nevertheless for 90% of their time in the PT + TCW they're shown as extremely capable. The OT stormies had to be hopeless at times bcs you can't have them nailing Han, Luke or Leia & ruining the movie. That's the real reason but from an in-universe pov I agree with Lucas that the dilution of the superior Jango clones gives a pretty good reason for this.

Sure but you're talking about the OT troops. The uniforms back then were limited & they probably often had extras wearing them rather than professional stuntmen. In TFA I'm sure we'll see highly competent stormtroopers wearing uniforms. When it comes to shooting at our heroes though their aim will still be terrible

 

Just to be clear, are we discussing NEW Star Wars content or clones?