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OOC A Tide of Discussion: the d20 ToF OOC thread

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource' started by Saintheart, Oct 15, 2012.

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  1. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    I thought you weren't retaining it. When you cast it, back on this page you indicated you were retaining it via AP after casting it on Corrath but didn't say you were retaining it in the following round when you cast it on yourself. My assumption was that you'd deliberately let it go, and was of that view particuarly since the references since then have been to "Invisibility" rather than "Greater Invisibility".

    I'll let it pass this time, but please bear it in mind for future reference. :)
  2. cassie5squared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2010
    star 2
    Yeah, my bad, I seriously need to work on clarifying. Apologies. [face_blush]
  3. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    Oh god, sorry guys. Serious scheduling and internet issues, and then I dropped the ball.

    Mazarun does attack with the crossbow to whatever viable targets he can find, with an AP spent for an extra attack if necessary, and uses White Raven Tactics to give Skadi an extra turn.
  4. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Skadi is still unconscious, so WRT doesn't do anything, unfortunately. May as well save it for later.
  5. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    All right, I can work with that...

    Lastly, Cass, while I'll honour Greater Invisibility still being memorised with a temp AP, I realised you actually are stuck with Invisibility in this round if you're going to quicken it -- because that Rod you've got is a Lesser Metamagic Rod (Quicken), which only allows you to quicken spells of up to third level, three times a day. Greater Invisibility is a fourth level spell. Invisibility, though, is second level, so you can quicken that with this rod. Sorry, I only remembered that last night. If you need me to go back and cite a page from the RPG where I specified it was that, I will, but you'll note your CS indicates that -- and the last edit was 6 November 2012; honest, I'm not changing stuff up to screw William over :D

    EDIT: Also, Rilwen, in any event White Raven Tactics only works on an ally within 10 feet. You're currently 15 feet off the ground. (I'm willing to allow the WOTC ruling that you are your own ally if you really, really desperately want to have another round of actions for some reason, but note Light's suggestion to save it for later).
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jul 29, 2013
  6. cassie5squared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2010
    star 2
    Bleh, silly Lesser Rods. Okaaaay. :p
  7. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Incidentally, guys, I've got a longrunning surprise in mind for you. No, no, not for your characters, for you guys. Can you please send me, when you've got a chance, a good description of what your characters look like, that is, if what I can see on the character sheets doesn't already tell enough of the story. I know Zanaek is meant to look like Orlando Bloom in Kingdom of Heaven with white streaks in his hair, and Sam Neill in Merlin is about as close as we've got to William's appearance, but for anyone else, I could use some detail. Take it as read that Corrath and Skadi already have their details based off Livi's lovely old sketches of those two.

    There won't be a payoff for this for quite a while, just send me that stuff when you can. If you think you've already given enough detail in the character sheets, though, just 'like' this post and that'll be that. :)
  8. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Next thing: @Rilwen_Shadowflame -- Rilwen, I know you're leaving it largely to me to optimise, but as I evaluated the position I found myself in a bit of a quandary, and given the following, I really think it should be your decision.

    In essence: you get four attacks with the hand crossbow, at +25/+20/+25/+25 after spending an AP. After rolling, I can tell you all of them are high enough to hit any target on the field providing you have line of sight, even with range increments taken into account. The first, in particular, is a critical hit.

    With those strikes, you maxed the critical hit: 36 damage. I rolled your damage as 16, 18, and 15 in the other cases (long story). The 16 result is enough to kill the hobgoblin next to Skadi. So you now have 36 damage in one hit, and 15 + 18 = 33 hitpoints to spread around. Without getting into the precise hitpoint totals, you've more or less got the following choices--

    • If you take a five foot step to G -4 as part of your full attack, like Corrath did -- i.e. out of cover -- that 33 + 36 damage could kill two hobgoblin targets. Those two are both armed with harpoons and one of them is not presently confused. But as I say, you'd be out from behind the wall. You wouldn't have the benefit of cover against anybody throwing at you next round.
    • Similarly, if you take a five foot step to G -4 and shoot all three bolts at the manticore, that will kill it.
    • If you stay where you are, 33 + 36 damage is enough to kill any target in line of sight. One shot isn't enough to do it, sadly.
    • Or, of course, you could just spread the wealth around and flick hitpoint damage on three appealing targets more or less at random.
    So it really comes down to a tactical decision by you: do you come out of cover and knock down two targets, come out of cover and bring the manticore down, or stay where you are in cover and knock down one target with no damage to anything else? This one is up to you.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jul 30, 2013
  9. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    Okay, save WRT, just mentally scrub the section of the post addressed to Skadi?

    And appearance-wise... well, William has this charming pic I commissioned as a present for Cassie...
    Mazarun, meanwhile, has this picture.:D
  10. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Double post just to say I edited the previous post, because it wasn't as parlous as I previously thought. Correct now.

    EDIT: Also, why mentally scrub that section of post? The image of shouting at an unconscious person is interesting! :D

    EDIT THE SECOND: Thanks for those links, incidentally -- useful stuff! :)

    EDIT THE THIRD: In fact, I may have to update your tokens now -- I think you've shown me that stuff before, I just have been tardy on that front. [face_blush]
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jul 30, 2013
  11. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    @Rilwen_Shadowflame -- okay, now my post on the tactical situation is correct. Sorry, sorry...
  12. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    Fair enough, it goes from being a WRT to just 'Mazarun is freaking out here and would like Skadi to get her cleric-y butt conscious again pronto.' XD

    And decision-wise? It's gonna have to be the manticore.

    ...Though if Mazarun counts as his own ally, is it then possible for him to WRT himself and thereby become a boltstorm of death?
  13. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Yes, WRT says you can basically take another full turn - because Wizards of the Coast once, perhaps foolishly, said that the word "ally" includes the guy making the maneuver, i.e. Mazarun.

    However, you'll be down to three attacks again for your WRT turn. WRT does not give you another AP to spend because you only get one AP per round, not 1 AP per turn. You then can't use WRT again during this encounter, though if you blew another AP next round to emulate the feat Sudden Recovery from Tome of Battle, you could get WRT back as a swift action.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jul 30, 2013
  14. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    ...Yes I can, Warblades recover their stuff differently. With a flourish or such.
    EDIT: With a swift action followed by a melee attack, or with a standard action like a harmless blade-flourish.
    Last edited by Rilwen_Shadowflame, Jul 30, 2013
  15. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    ...Huh. Oh, hang on, I must have it mixed up with people like Skadi who have once-per-encounter martial maneuvers. My mistake. So anyway: WRT on you, or just save it for later?
  16. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    Yup! WRT, priority being the non-confused harpoon guy and/or any others not presently gripped with confusion, second priority anyone I can reach who's currently in range to threaten a party member.

    Boltstorm gooooo!
  17. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    All right, let's roll dem bones at 1d20+25, 1d20+20, and 1d20+25 again...

    ...three hits.

    As for damage: 16, 17, and 17. Two shots from that will kill one non-confused harpoon hobgoblin, and the last shot brings a second non-confused harpoon hobgoblin down to single digits. And with that, I'm off to bed. :D
  18. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Is the chain dude in the back still alive? I think that guy was one of the spellbreakers, and if so, we cannot afford to let him have another turn.
  19. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Wait Z looks like Orlando Bloom? Ewwww. Lol. Actually I really wouldnt know what actor would fit for him honestly. Closest visual I have imagined him as is the image his token comes from, but dressed like a Knight's Templar or a Kingdom of Heaven knight like Saint mentioned. Just with the Torm symbol instead of the crucifix. That was before he got a set of plate armor though, so he'd look more like the token image now with streaks of gray hair. You still have that image Saint?
  20. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Mitth: Yep, I've still got that, so thanks for that. :)

    Light/Rilwen: Yes, the chain fighter at the back has the same capabilities as the one that broke some of Skadi's defences. Given his current hitpoints it would take all three of Mazarun's shots to bring that one down in one pass. It's a matter for you guys how you pick your targets.

    I might note everyone (well, bar Skadi who's unconscious and Corrath who's invisible) is out of chainswinging range, being at least 15 feet off the ground, and Zanaek is extremely likely to finish summoning a hound archon this time next round who is being sent to engage that target.

    On the other hand, just because the hobgoblin doesn't have any immediately apparent ranged weapons to hand doesn't mean he might not have something to throw at you. You've also got Evelios who isn't committed to an action yet, who has Snowflake Wardance, the same +9s to attack and damage as the rest of you, the advantage of height, and the advantage of not being presently covered with a gooey substance that stops you from charging things. But Evelios may also be better used putting yet another Confusion out there.

    It's completely a matter for you. Please don't interpret any of this as suggesting a direction, it's just stuff that occurred to me as relevant on the decision.
  21. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    I really don't like leaving the chain guy on the ground, because the most obvious target is to kill Skadi with a single attack if he can't hit anything else, and if he's still hanging around next round he can pop the defenses on another character. This makes him far more dangerous than the harpoon-users because this is a battle about endurance. We still have other things we need to do, and any spells we can hang on to between fights will reduce the amount of pressure on our party. If Skadi had been able to block the chain shot, she would not have lost her defenses, and thus wouldn't have been completely rolled by the opposition. That makes the chain guys far more dangerous to the party in the long term than the harpooners.

    Yes, we have spells like Revivify and Raise Dead, but that costs the party a hell of a lot more than just not letting her die in the first place. It would burn between four and six of the remaining eight charges on the staff of healing, compared to spending one charge to use Heal and bring her back to full.

    Other concern is William, since low-AC and HP means he won't last long against any ranged attackers who are still up and running, though the quickened invisibility should help.
  22. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Put it this way, I'm cool with switching targets to the chain guy if that's what Rilwen/the party/all you guys want to do...
  23. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    Yes, I do think I'd prefer to switch to him, thank you very much.:)
  24. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    ...just a quick note to say I haven't forgotten you guys, I just had work commitments piling up recently in particular. Update should be in by the next 24 hours.

    The guts of it will come down to this: nobody dies, William loses 9 hitpoints (although the harpoon doesn't lodge in him) after suffering the only hit from the monsters' attacks this round (yes, it did pass concealment and AC), no monsters flee off the field despite the generous whacking with Confusion (It's been a very odd two rounds given that result hasn't turned up once yet.) Corrath takes out another chain fighter in a single pass while standing to defend the tunnel. Talk to you guys soon...
  25. cassie5squared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2010
    star 2
    I have to ask (because if I've asked before I've forgotten the answer completely), are there any rules about combative familiars that I might use? I'm struggling with the idea of Maeghen just hovering well out of the way and watching while her wizard's a trapped target. Even if she just attempts to get in the attackers' way and confuse the hell out of them...
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