Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life? (v3)

Has anyone here said that? Even if they're christian they are allowed to have a pro-life abortion stance but a pro-death penalty stance, they're not one in the same. On one hand you're dealing with a fetus, or an undeveloped baby, on the other you're dealing with someone that killed or hurt another person. What did the baby do? What did the murderer do?

My stance is most certainly not pro-life all across the board. Hell, I could kill murderers myself without thinking twice about it.

 

THen they need to stop calling themselves "pro-life" because it's a lie.

Simple as that.



Squ33k!

 

Life is life, and anyone looking to worm their way out of that notion...well, it's probably a Christian.

Yes but let's say I make a hit list of people I want to kill. Now let's say I go out and kill all those people. How is my life greater then the life of any unborn baby? Answer it's not. In fact by killing those people I have showen I'm not human at all. I have showen I'm less then human.

We put to death those who kill others many time for no reason at all or over reasons so poor that the jury feels nothing for the person being put to death ie Tim Mcveigh.

So I'm a Christian who is not going to cry over murders being put to death. When many of those who murder others and don't feel that they did anything wrong I don't really have a problem with them being put to death. In fact I'm glad I no longer have to pay to keep them alive in jail. In fact I was very happy the day Tim Mcveigh dead. He was a baby and child killer he killed 168 people and when asked if he cared that many of those were babies and little child he said it did not matter. My money no long had to go to him being kept alive. Now if only that would happen to the guy who helped him.

I will not cry over mass murders or any murder who goes out of there way to kill incconet(sp) life and not feel anything for it. If they show they are at lest some what sorry maybe just maybe I might forgive them. But when a good number of them don't oh well. So yes I'm Pro-Life to those who respect life. Sense murders don't respect life....

 

So I'm a Christian who is not going to cry over murders being put to death. When many of those who murder others and don't feel that they did anything wrong I don't really have a problem with them being put to death. In fact I'm glad I no longer have to pay to keep them alive in jail.


Then you have real nerve to even call yourself a christian as Christ would act and respond in the exact opposite way. Your the guy on the cross begging Jesus to spirit him away. A real christian jumps in front of the headsmens ax just as he's about to behead the criminal. Im so sick of people twisting Christs teachings to fit their ideologies. False prophets, one and all. You wanna be a christian. Treat people like you want to be treated, bless the poor and weak, and be tolerant of all.

 

This should really go to the death penalty thread.

I thought there was a commandment against killing people.

I agree that the religious can be very selective about what part of the gospel they follow, depending on how it fits their personal viewpoint.

 

Then you have real nerve to even call yourself a christian as Christ would act and respond in the exact opposite way.

No he did not. Those who murderer but never did anything to show that they were sorry fell from the eye so both Jesus and God.

A real christian jumps in front of the headsmens ax just as he's about to behead the criminal.

That is also not ture at all. A person who murders is not going to be saved when that person does not even care that he murder people. Let's remember one of the Ten commdanets is tho shell not murder. That means it is wrong for you to go out break into a house and murder a family. It says nothing about. Putting the murder to death. Because that is not murder it is justies(sp).

The murdere wants to kill a family well if he dose not do anything to show that he is sorry for what he did when he is judeged and put to death he was will face God and Jesus and they will turn there backs to him.

You wanna be a christian. Treat people like you want to be treated, bless the poor and weak, and be tolerant of all.

Sure but I will be tolerant to those who RESPECT THE LIFE OF OTHERS. A person who goes out blows up a building and then sits in his cell not care that he killed babies and little children. Well I will not show him respect because he has lost it. Respect is a two way street. IF YOU RESPECT LIFE I REPSECT YOU. If on the other hand you are someone who murders people becasue you may get some joy out of it. Or becasue you think it's ok to murder a family becasue you want there money and your poor. Well I don't have RESPECT for you. I will never cry for those who murder others. If you don't like that well I'm sorry. But all this I should be tolerant to murders. That's bull Jesus and God were not tolerant to murders Other was the commandent of tho shell not murder would not be part of the 10 commandents.

Edit So yes I'm Pro-Life. I respect the life of thoes unborn. I respect the life of those who are already born. Which is why I don't have respect for those who murder others.

 

Is it "Thou shalt not murder" or "Thou shalt not kill"???

 

A person who murders is not going to be saved when that person does not even care that he murder people. Let's remember one of the Ten commdanets is tho shell not murder.

If he asks for Christs forgiveness he will be saved and as a christian you should put more stock in the beatitudes then the commandments - two of which are only viable in todays society as well as the time of Jesus.


Which is why I don't have respect for those who murder others.


But Jesus DID consider ALL off his flock. Sinners repent and they shall have heaven. Its not even up for interpretation as so much of the old testament of the bible is, which you ironically rely on as a christian. Its pretty black and white in the gospels.

 

THen they need to stop calling themselves "pro-life" because it's a lie.


As a corollary to that, "pro-choicers" need to stop calling themselves "pro-choice" unless they also believe in school vouchers, legalization of drugs, and the right to direct your tax money away from government programs you don't support.

 

Ah well then I guess Ive earned the right to call myself pro-choice !

 

Man, Jediflyer got us there...

So, what would be the best way to describe the two sides in a few syllable sound bite? I mean, the "pro-choice" is not necessarily pro-abortion. Pro-abortion would mean that everyone should get one. Then again, "pro-life" maybe could be con-abortion. That fit's at least.

Or we could just acknowledge that the labels are imperfect and deal with more relevant issues.

 

In that case, I am certainly pro-choice. In fact, I have started in past occasions to describe myself as "pro-choice" before realizing that the term has very specific abortion-related connotations and wording it diffferently.

I've tried before to come up with concise yet fair terms for the two positions, and have never found anything to satisfy. Ultimately, though, I think we might be better off without them. The thing about such labels, even when they're fair, is that they discourage the formulation and expression of refined, nuanced ideas. Someone not using such labels can, for instance, much more readily expand on both moral and legal aspects of the question. And just in general, the issue doesn't break down so neatly into a binary unless you elect to pursue it that way. Many here have advocated elective abortions up to a certain stage in the pregnancy, at which point other rules take effect. Are they pro-life or pro-choice? A little of both, but they'd commonly be simply lumped in with the pro-choice crowd since they would permit abortion at any point. Others with different conditional restrictions (only in instances of rape or incest, say) might be grouped with pro-lifers despite their willingness to allow some abortions. And then there are different ways to look at the issue within a side. Some see abortion as a moral and social ill and support it legally based only on their views of the role of the government and individual choice. Others, however, see cases where it is a goood decision for all and ascribe social benefit to abortion.

The labels don't work; that much is clear. This given, discarding them entirely would be a wonderful thing, making for a much more mature, rich, thought-out discourse.

-Paul

 

The labels DO work, but only in reference to abortion. When I say I'm pro-life, everyone knows what I mean, nobody says "oh so you're against the death penalty?". When someone says they're pro-choice, I know they're talking about abortion.

Pro-life = against abortion
Pro-choice = for the personal choice of using abortion

I don't even see why this is an issue.

 

Let's not get caught up in labelling, it will only derail the discussion.

The terms that have floated into the vernacular are just fine, we all know what they mean.

Peace,

V-03

 

I'm sure someone here believes that a human child is not alive until it completely exists in the birth canal, and that an unborn fetus is not a living creature. I have information to prove you all wrong, and it's been under seemingly everyone's noses for months while discussing this.

Of course, we have this wonderful tool called the sonogram, which of course records the baby inside of the mothers womb. This reveals that the unborn child is actually alive, not a non living creature as some here have tried to point out. The baby moves around, rolls, sucks his thumb, gets the hiccups, smiles, frowns, responds to voices and sounds and numerous other things proving that the unborn child is indeed alive.

 

Nobody argues that it is not alive, only that its "personhood" is not equal to the person hood of post fetal humans.

 

I just don't see how that life is not equal to that of a post fetal human, it's alive. It is life, it is murdering a living human.

 

See above

 

Seriously, most of the time abortions take place because the immature parents don't want a young child. Not because it is most of the timeo save a mother, I may be lenient if it is to ACTUALLY save the mother, not if the lazy parents don't want a child.

They took the chance of having sex, sex is the way babies are formed. The woman became pregant because of the risk they took and now they won't take up responsibility for what they did. Which is to childish it's not even funny.

 

If you don't believe the fetus is a person, how isn't getting an abortion taking responsibility?

 

Please contact a forum mod with any questions with regard to this post, and how it relates to the established guideline

 

Now there's an efficient way to debate. I don't want to think that maaaybe your post would be more effective if you'd not called your opposition idiots. But it might.

 

So all life is sacred? Even the murderer's life?


Squ33k!

 

As a corollary to that, "pro-choicers" need to stop calling themselves "pro-choice" unless they also believe in school vouchers, legalization of drugs, and the right to direct your tax money away from government programs you don't support.

I support those things. The less the government can **** with me the happier I am. That includes the option to have an abortion.

 

Yes, all life is a sacred thing taht should be held as such. Not something that is unworthy of even living.

Also ,I never called my opposition idiots, what I meant was, if anyone is actually dumb enough to not think that a fetus is an alive human(It is, as proved in my earlier post) then they have no idea what they are talking about. which is pretty much the same thing, and which I would suggest dropping.