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Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life? (v3)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Aunecah_Skywalker, Feb 20, 2004.

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  1. DARTH-SHREDDER

    DARTH-SHREDDER Jedi Knight star 5

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    May 6, 2005
    Good point, I actually didn't think of that. Yeah, conservatives think kids should be treated as adults if they commit a crime but not if they get pregnant. Hypocrocy.
     
  2. dizfactor

    dizfactor Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Wait wait wait... the irony hear is so thick i could cut it with a knife... Your kid can't, oh say, have her pictures in the school newspaper without signed permission, or use a school computer, but they can have medical surgery where if the doctors screw up she could DIE??? And you think its wrong for the parents to know???

    First of all, I don't think any of that BS is justifiable, either. Kids shouldn't need permission to do any of that. Simply because we're used to violating the civil rights of minors doesn't make it right to keep doing so.

    Second, this isn't the fourth grade field trip to the zoo we're talking about. It's the rest of her life. With an issue like that, her voice is the only one that counts.
     
  3. Underpaid_Soldier

    Underpaid_Soldier Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003

    It's mindsets like this, that cause three 6 year-olds to engage in sexual acts in a school closet (a nephew of someone I knew was involved). After all, they're minors, why should they tell their parents anything.
     
  4. darth_paul

    darth_paul Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 24, 2000
    Actually, I believe it's natural curiosity that causes three six-year-olds to engage in sexual acts in a school closet. Perhaps it's this sort of attitude that permits the possibility. Or perhaps it's under-supervision by school personnel. Either way, I agree with diz. Your point doesn't refute his, either. Rights are rights, and cannot be discarded for expediency; only by arguing against his assertion of rights can you really undermine what he's saying.

    -Paul
     
  5. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    This is a toughie.

    I don't like restrictions on abortion, but no minor can have any medical procedure without consent.

    I'll weigh in more later, I gotta get back to work.

    Peace,

    V-03
     
  6. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    It's mindsets like this, that cause three 6 year-olds to engage in sexual acts in a school closet (a nephew of someone I knew was involved). After all, they're minors, why should they tell their parents anything.


    Its fear mongering like this that causes regresses in everyones rights. Its a divisive issue, no doubt, but spare us the description of something that barely has even a tangential connection to abortion rights.
     
  7. ClonedEmperor

    ClonedEmperor Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 12, 2005
    "Its fear mongering like this that causes regresses in everyones rights. Its a divisive issue, no doubt, but spare us the description of something that barely has even a tangential connection to abortion rights."

    Having sex and than not wanting your parents to find out has no tangential connection to abortion? Thats the reason it happens!
    Girl: Oh well Id like to have sex, but I dont want the responsibility or my parents to know, so ill just have an abortion (afterall its not like its a human being or anything)?
     
  8. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 1, 2004
    At six years old!?!?!?. Please stop.
     
  9. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Feb 15, 2001
    Actually, it's been found that most abortions these days happen to women in their 28-30 age range. Sooo...I don't think we need to worry about teen pregnancy as much unless of course you're a GWB fan of teaching only abstinence.
     
  10. ClonedEmperor

    ClonedEmperor Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Most could mean 56%, thatd still be a substantial amount of teenage pregnancies if so (i havent seen the survey, could you give us some numbers please?)

    Its still all about one thing, convenience
     
  11. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 1, 2004
    ^^^Thats your opinion.
     
  12. ClonedEmperor

    ClonedEmperor Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 12, 2005
  13. dizfactor

    dizfactor Jedi Knight star 5

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    Aug 12, 2002
    Its still all about one thing, convenience

    I disagree, but what, precisely, is wrong with convenience?

    I feel sometimes like the right-wing glorifies inconvenience, ignorance, and pain for no particular reason other than a deep-rooted fear of progress.
     
  14. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    I gave the numbers in one version of this thread already. Nobody listened.
     
  15. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    ClonedEmperor you'd benefit immensely from talking to a person or people who've had an abortion and see if it was such a simple decision. It might enlargen your view of this issue.

    E_S
     
  16. ClonedEmperor

    ClonedEmperor Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 12, 2005
    Yes, it probably would... Are there any on these boards i could talk to?
     
  17. dizfactor

    dizfactor Jedi Knight star 5

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    Aug 12, 2002
    Being male, I've never had an abortion myself, obviously, but last year one of my partners got pregnant, and she had an abortion.

    I can't say the decision itself was hard in the way you'd normally say a decision is hard. She told me she had an appointment made at Planned Parenthood in virtually the same breath she told me she was pregnant, and I absolutely would have made the same decision were it up to me, and I had always known that that would be what I would want to do if I ever happened to get someone pregnant, and I always made a point of making sure the women I dated were pro-choice to avoid conflict in these sorts of circumstances.

    The decision was obvious to everyone, but the follow-through on that decision, the actual process of it, was extremely difficult emotionally. We cried together pretty much every day from the day she told me to the day of the procedure. I had a huge welling-up of emotions that I had never felt before or since, something deep and primal. We talked a lot about how much we really wished we were in a different place in our lives so that we could have made a different decision, but it just wasn't the right time for any of us to be having a baby.

    We all went to the clinic, we waited, she came out, she was pampered and cuddled and loved until the painkillers let her drift off to sleep. The emotional fallout kept up for quite some time afterwards - it was like a bomb had gone off in the living room.

    No one involved regrets the decision, and if I were to go back in time I'd want to do the same thing again. But there's a deep, deep sorrow that hangs over the whole incident - it was painful as hell to do, and it was regrettable that it needed to be done, but it nevertheless needed to be done.

    I don't know if that helps at all.
     
  18. ClonedEmperor

    ClonedEmperor Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 12, 2005
    That is pretty sad... may i ask why it was necessary though? I dont know that you explained that in your post
     
  19. rechedelphar

    rechedelphar Jedi Master star 6

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    Mar 29, 2004
    there is no time when an abortion is nessasary
     
  20. Stackpole_The_Hobbit

    Stackpole_The_Hobbit Jedi Master star 6

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    Jul 31, 2002
    Thank you for that convincing and reasoned argument in favour of the anti-choice side. I have now decided that you are right, you have changed my mind, and despite the fact that I don't know what could've possibly made you say that, that I don't know any of your reasons for saying there is no time, never any time, when an abortion is necessary, I now suddenly magickally agree.

    Welcome to JCC.
     
  21. dizfactor

    dizfactor Jedi Knight star 5

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    Aug 12, 2002
    That is pretty sad... may i ask why it was necessary though? I dont know that you explained that in your post

    My partner was about to start veterinary school, and no one involved had the financial stability to properly raise children in any case. She realistically would have had to put off school for at least a few years in even the best case scenario, and we'd be constantly behind the 8-ball financially for the rest of our lives. Our lives would be totally derailed, and the kid would not have an appropriate standard of living.
     
  22. ClonedEmperor

    ClonedEmperor Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I can understand why you chose that given the circumstances, but did you consider an adoption by any chance?
     
  23. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Whether he did or he didn't, he and his partner reached the conclusion that an abortion was the best choice for both of them.

    They acted within their rights and made a very private decision together. It's nobody else's business that they chose to abort.

    This is not the type of decision the government should be involved in.

    Now, back to parental notification laws.

    As an anesthesiology resident, I have given anesthesia for patients undergoing both elective and emergent termination of pregnancy, mostly in the first trimester (and mostly for emergencies). I can tell you that this is oftentimes a very traumatic experience for the patient and, if they choose to involve them, their families. I cannot imagine the government stepping in and choosing to make the circumstances even more difficult by butting in. Not only would it be wrong (IMHO), but it would further add to the difficulty of an already difficult situation.

    These are intensely emotional and private decisions, and they should not be made by government officials. They are for individuals and those they choose to involve.

    Peace,

    V-03
     
  24. EnforcerSG

    EnforcerSG Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2001
    Does anyone like my compromise for the parent notification laws; they the parents will be told but they may not force the child one way or another?
     
  25. DARTH-SHREDDER

    DARTH-SHREDDER Jedi Knight star 5

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    May 6, 2005
    That sounds great to me. I'm totaly fine with that. As long as the parents don't get to make the whole decision and decide the entire life for their kid.
     
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