Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life? (v3)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Aunecah_Skywalker, Feb 20, 2004.

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  1. DARTH-SHREDDER Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2005
    star 5
    Killing an unborn child is responsible? I think that's the LEAST responsible act in a series of irresponsible acts by the would-be parents. Being too frickin stupid to protect themselves is the first case of irresponsibility.

    But once it's done, it's done. So why would you force people to live with the consequences thier whole life? Over what, a switch in what brain you're using (mental to sexual)? It's not that hard to let your sexual brain take over, and then you lose control and have sex. That's what we were designed for. Anway, it's not the parents place to tell their kids how their whole life will turn out. If a child made a mistake, while that was irresponsible, please tell me what how it is the parent's place to tell them they will have to have a whole different life which will probably prevent them from doing things IT'S THIER RIGHT to do. Maybe being a rock star? Or how about being a free person for once? The freedom to go to parties and be with frieds without having to get a baby sitter?

    Please tell how it's the parents place to tell their daughter that she will raise a child and not have any of the freedoms of being an adult? If you truely think that it's ok to force their duaghter to have a baby then I'm sure you support arranged marriages, right? After all, the parents know best, so they should decide who you should marry, right?

    We impose our beliefs on others every single day, don't feed us that nonsense.

    Great, so let's tell women they can't vote, African-americans they have to go to separate schools, let's force evrybody to do what what we want them to do because. That makes perfect sense. Oh yes, let's also tell people how to spend their money, and when they can go to parties. That would only be consisten since you think it's ok to tell your child how to run hs or her life? Or is it just her life?
  2. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    But who honestly has an abortion because they're afraid of the dangers of pregnancy? I've NEVER heard anyone say "I'm going to have an abortion because I'm scared of something happening during the pregnancy".

    I have, numerous times. Abortion is far less riskier than pregnancy and childbirth combined when performed early in pregnancy, and by a licensed physician (as opposed to illegally with inappropriate tools).


    I just don't think that's realistic, it's an irrational fear until the doctor says otherwise. But if there is a real risk of permanent harm or death, get an abortion.

    The risks include bleeding, infection, death, sterility, blood clots, pulmonary embolism, and nerve damage, to name a few, and that's just being pregnant. Oh yes, I forgot to mention pre-eclampsia and eclampsia, as well as cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure.

    But some conservatives don't even want the doctor to have a choice in the decision-making, hence the clause in the overturned federal late-term abortion law that refuses to grant exceptions for the health of the mother, something conservative lawmakers apparently feel that licensed medical professionals are unqualified to judge.

    Peace,

    V-03
  3. Three-Eight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 4
    For myself, I am Pro-Choice.

    Because I think that a woman is still the boss of her own body.
    And if a woman gets pregnant, and she is not willing to carry or birth the baby, it's her choice.

    I also agree with Malkie an Vaderize03 that there is a huge risk, and if the woman does not want to.

    On the choice of a woman aborting her child; I think the woman should have the final word, but that she is backed up by people that know what they're dealing with, and tell her all the sides of the dice.
    So that if it is a teen mother, for example, or someone with physical or mental difficulties, for example, she is supported.
    I know that having a 'support team' is out of the question,... But these situations of, forgive me, yet naive persons in the world, is what make it so hard. And lazyness... If the mother is to lazy to carry and she doesn't want to... it is still her choice.

    On the 'Killing' of the unborn human; there are many people that state that taking abortion is killing a human body, this brings me back to the beginning, I am Pro-Choice.
    Also, I know this may sound cruel, but I only say this if a mother does not want to carry and birth; we, the world, are getting overpopulated, the last thing we need, are unwanted childs. This is only minor, I know. But bits and scraps help. Forgive the terrible choice of words.

    In my own country, abortion is legal, to great dissatisfaction of the Christian Party. And I hope that mothers to be are supported here, for I am unaware.

    ~
    Three-Eight
  4. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    May i ask what country you live in, the USA? (I ask because either you're using the metaphor "christian party" for conservatives, or you're referencing something else alltogethor)

    The only way i can support abortion, is in two cases
    Rape-
    Where the child and mother are at risk of dying because of the pregnancy-
  5. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Cloned emperor, I've brought this point up several times, but why is it the child has a right to live if the nature of the sex was consensual, but if the sex was non-consensual then it means the woman is stuck with the child?

    If men could get pregnant, I bet you there wouldn't be much of a quesiton about the legality of abortion.

    Furthermore, I am personally opposed to the idea of abortion in any caes, but I don't think I can make that choice for another person.



  6. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    ClonedEmperor, I found the answer to ThreeEight's location in one click, without using my Modly powers. Can you too?

    E_S
  7. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Question:
    Why is giving a child up for adoption any more responsible than having an abortion? I mean, if it were about responsibility, you'd be saying that the mother should be forced to raise the child. Isn't giving up the child running away too?



    Squ33k!
  8. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Where the child and mother are at risk of dying because of the pregnancy-

    All women are at risk of dieing due to a pregnancy, so I take it from your comments that you allow anyone to have an aborption.
  9. Loopster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 4
  10. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    But again, how many women think about the possible risks of pregnancy medically? I think it's more about the social stigma of giving your baby up for adoption, the burden of supporting a baby for 9 months, the idea that it's better to have your baby not exist than it is for it to exist with another mother (subconsciously), etc.. etc.. Are those good enough excuses for ripping the life of your child (or the soon to be life...however you want to look at it) away?

    Yeah that is flawed. I don't think anyone really buys into the idea that for something to be wrong it has to illegal.

    No.
  11. LadyWinterJediMaster Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2005
    I am pro-choice all the way. Excpet for use as birthcontrol, and partial births to harvest organs, and third trimester abortions.

    But here is something for everybody to think about. It's abstract so bear with me.

    Let's just forget wheather or not it's ok to have an abortion. Think of it this way... It's your body right?
    And don't you want the freedom to do whatever you want to it? well if you let the government and certain interest groups take away your right to have an abortion, (wheather you believe in it or not, atleast you HAVE THE CHOICE) where will it end? What other things will they try to take away from us? Who knows what these people who think they know what's best for our own bodies/souls will try to control next? Who we marry, (to produce a more superior child), when we have sex, (to control the population growth), and they may spread into other aspects of our PRIVTE life.
    I'm just saying leave let's this subject alone, it's good to have the choice, and if someone does have an aboriton it's not your place to judge them. Itis ultimatly between themselves,and whatever God they believe in.
  12. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    It's not a case of thinking about it, or using it as an excuse, or using it as your sole basis for abortion - I'm just stating fact. Pregnancy has a higher associated risk of death, but you are ignoring that fact.

    You call yourself 'pro-life' yet you don't take the mother's life into consideration? :rolleyes:

    I hope you never have to be involved in a decision like that then, because life simply isn't as black and white as you make it. Your comment is exceedingly heartless, and rather hypocritical - you call yourself 'pro-life' yet you don't take the mother's life, or the first born's life into consideration? :rolleyes:
  13. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    But again, how many women think about the possible risks of pregnancy medically? I think it's more about the social stigma of giving your baby up for adoption, the burden of supporting a baby for 9 months, the idea that it's better to have your baby not exist than it is for it to exist with another mother (subconsciously), etc.. etc.. Are those good enough excuses for ripping the life of your child (or the soon to be life...however you want to look at it) away?

    I'm curious, have you ever been in this situation? Will you ever be in this situation? If not, then how do you know? It's this pre-programmed ignorance that's been spouted that I think is the root of the problem. Pro-lifers don't want to know what kind of thoughts enter the woman's mind because if they did they probably wouldn't feel the same way they did before. Also it humanizes the other side, which in a debate like this is not good for either side. Seriously, have any pro-lifers thought about what would go through a person's mind that they would have this procedure? And if it has, can you in any way sympathize?
  14. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    (emphasis mine)

    Here's a question for you: why is it that the right-wing in the US opposes sex ed? After all, like you say, being too stupid to protect yourself is the first case of irresponsibility, but the right doesn't us to be educated about sex...

    Instead of Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, how about Pro-Making Abortion a Non Issue.
  15. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
  16. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    Pre-programmed ignorance? I've gone from being pro-life when I was a christian, to pro-choice, back to pro-life only recently. It's an issue I've thought a lot of about. As far as my own personal experience, I've known people who have had abortions, and I've known people that couldn't go through with the abortion. My sister was going to have an abortion but backed out the day she was going to have the procedure. Not from any pressure from myself or my family by the way. But obviously myself being a male I can never truly understand what a woman goes through, but I'm not sure what you're trying to get at anyway. I've come to the conclusions I have about what goes through a woman's mind just from talking to people, reading, etc.. etc.. I don't need to go through it in order to realize that it's wrong.


    They oppose sex-ed because it's naughty... I have very strong opinions on it but that's for a different discussion entirely, and I don't want to steer this discussion in the wrong direction. I'm completely for sex education, 100%, the only way we can get the abortion rates to drop is by combatting it through sexual education. So I'm very much pro-sexual education and pro-life. Trust me, I have no stigma when it comes to sex...
  17. DARTH-SHREDDER Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2005
    star 5
    It's an issue I've thought a lot of about. As far as my own personal experience, I've known people who have had abortions, and I've known people that couldn't go through with the abortion. My sister was going to have an abortion but backed out the day she was going to have the procedure. Not from any pressure from myself or my family by the way.

    But I'm sure not all women are your sister, and I'm also sure some women wouldn't hesitate to have an aboriton.
  18. Loopster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 4
    I've never once heard a woman say "I'm pregnant, I hope I don't die".

  19. WormieSaber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2000
    star 5
    Yeah but that doesn't mean some of them don't feel like they are going to die. It's a proven fact that abortion is safer than full term pregnancy. Some women have to stay in bed for the last few months of their pregnancies because of bleeding internally whenever she may walk around and do things. Imagine that, and so how can you work and do that too? Or maybe risk working and having a miscarriage is more dangerous than abortion. All pregnancies are different, but I've never heard of a happy go lucky pregnancy where women are jumping with glee to the hospital. But I'd give up my health and take some risks to have my own child one day. for me, it would be worth it. But not now, and so because of health issues and life situations I think abortion is only right. Just think what is best for the child too. Call me selfish, but I could not go on living knowing someone else was raising my kid; my own flesh and blood. If going through the full nine months, I'd rather keep it.
  20. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    I just wanted to step in and say I'm scared witless of getting pregnant, and I'm not even trying yet. My mother had a hard labour with me and my sister-in-law has had three miscarriages. One of my friends nearly died in childbirth and still another developed post-natal depression so bad she nearly killed herself. I think there's a romanticised view of pregnancy that a lot of people buy into - you'll get pregnant when you're ready, the 9 months might be a little uncomfortable but you'll glow with a new found happiness and at the end of it you and your partner will cradle a perfect little bundle of joy.
  21. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    I agree wholeheartedly that sex-ed is the most powerful tool in combatting abortion. It's unfortunate that those who are most vocal in opposing abortion in all it's instances are also the ones most vocally opposed to education. You'd think that if they were really serious about ending abortion...
  22. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Loopster, the fact that most patients don't understand the risks and potential complications of pregnancy makes it even more likely that they won't get problems addressed before they become seriously threatening.

    Ask most women what the risks of pregnancy and childbirth are, and they won't be able to tell you. Lack of education on this subject is a real problem.

    As far as the broader question of abortion goes, I am anti-abortion but pro-choice. I do not believe the decision resides with anybody but the woman and her physician, with non-controlling input from the father. It simply is none of my business what a stranger chooses to do with their body.

    Unless I am willing to adopt or otherwise provide for their child, I have no right to tell someone that they cannot have an elective abortion within a reasonable and early timeframe.

    Peace,

    V-03

    V-03
  23. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    There's that education thing again...
  24. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    the only way we can get the abortion rates to drop is by combatting it through sexual education.

    Uhh...abortion rates have been dropping since the 70's.
  25. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    However it's probably due to an increased use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS, rather than increased use of condoms to prevent pregnancy.
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