Discussion About the age thing...best reference is Star Trek

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Guybrush, Nov 8, 2012.

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  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I read the entire thread, and the most vile comments I saw in it were directed at other posters.

    I don't really care if you think I'm "pretty twisted," but I'm curious as to how that's less vile than saying that an actress has gained weight.
  2. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I think I mentioned this in another thread, but if the Big 3 are going to be the focus, I just can't see how they're going to outdo Wrath of Khan for showing aging heroes.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  3. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    CT, I'm typing on a phone and not skilled enough to seperate the various sections to respond so for each quote box in your post I just mark the answer 1,2, 3 and so on

    1. It is above, but heaven help me I can't see it now. Although I just remembered that on this device the threads sometimes get shortened and I have to tap a "see more" link to get more posts. I try that after I type.

    2. Well that's a matter of opinion - you seemed not to like the movie and this isn't the same thing as hating it jet because Ford is "old".

    3. Speculating and wagering is the same thing as not having a clue. We don't know the people and it's not like Hamill is going to doing cart wheels and handstands. Most of the stunts in Star Wars are wired and VFX anyway. The lightsabre duels are always designed to match the actors ability and the "heavy lifting" can be done by the youngsters. There is no point in being negative before he project even gets fully going.

    4. I'm certain you are intelligent enough to know that this is directed at the people who have been making he incredibly horrible comments about the actors. It's got nothing to do with just calling them old. Don't be snippy. Unless you've made some of the horrible comments it's not directed at you.

    5. Really. Anything, anytime, anywhere. Without any regard for the feelings of others. Would you tell a person they are disgustingly fat or a person you knew suffered a mental illness nuts? And you are also intelligent enough to know the bit here about you calling Fisher fat is just more snippiness.

    6. Strangely, just as ignorant in type as it would be in real life.

    In the next three boxes, you quote a Darth CT. I can't see the original post so I don't know what the person is referring to in the first and third boxes about "truth" and "reading the comments" or how it pertains to my posts. I find this strange - does the message board lose some posts when viewed on a mobile device? That "show more" link doesn't appear here.

    However, the middle quote pretty much sums up the type of person Darth CT is.

    If you think he is worth quoting you are just as bad.

    Odd that you two could be proud of it and yet not be able to accept that you are predjudiced.

    And you obviously haven't the capacity for change so I am clearly tilting at windmills.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Open the thread in Safari or Android as opposed to Tapatalk or Forum Runner; quoted posts are much easier to see than in the apps and you should be able to get that the last part of CT's post is a play on the Obi-Wan/Vader ANH duel.

    My only other comment is that you really seem hung up on what people say about Fisher, when as I pointed out when I linked to another thread in this forum, people have said much worse about other actors. Is there some reason for this?

    Also, for someone who is getting bent out of shape over Fisher being called fat, you're doing a lot of name-calling yourself--"ignorant," "twisted," "prejudiced."
  5. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    There is nothing wrong or twisted about saying a person has gained weight.

    But if you actually read through the thread and look up some of the others there is some pretty awful things said.

    Denying they are hateful is twisted.

    There is no point in pretending that I'm giving out just about people commenting on weight or the whether the actors look up to the part.

    That is not what I'm talking about and you know it.

    If you want to get involved in the discuss you are going to have to look into what I am talking about and not just deny its there.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Once another poster starts pretending he or she knows what's inside my head from the other side of a computer screen, the conversation from my end is over.

    Peace out...from the "twisted" one. ;)
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Nov 10, 2012
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  7. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    I am on Safari. I get the whole CT duel thing, but it is Darth CT's post I can't see so I don't know what the other CT is actually trying to say. The post seems to be deleted as it i can tell which of my previous posts it seems to be referencing but I don't see it.

    Also post I make seem to be moving from one page to another, like when I hit reply it would appear on page 2 before the post I am replying to and then move to its proper place on page 3 when I refresh.
  8. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Hit reply too soon.

    You do seem to think I am particularly "hung up" on Fisher. Perhaps I'm just more appalled because the worst comments were directed at her. It seemed to turn into a Fisher bashing episode.

    Dude, I'm not the only one who feels this.

    It started out as just silly rubbish about the age and weight, which I believe I try to say at the start (certain it this thread but maybe another) but it went nasty then.

    And again, not "bent out of shape" about Fisher being called fat - which is a mean way to say it - it was about what came after.

    You really are going to have to look up the comments in question and not just keep repeating that this is about weight.
  9. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    When did I say you were the twisted one?

    These threads are long and you don't seem to be one of the people I was receding to.
  10. Matsemitsu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    Look, the thing about Hamill and Fisher is that (unlike Ford) they haven't been in a lot of movies since Star Wars. When people see them, it's mostly in paparazzi shots where, naturally, they look as anyone would when they're just walking their dog or going grocery shopping. Look at similar shots of, I don't know, Britney Spears, Heidi Klum, etc - celebrities who don't look their best in these situations, but on a set, they look splendid. Episode VII isn't going to be a documentary-style Lars von Trier production that's designed to make people look awful in order to produce a sense of realism, but a glossy Hollywood production. They will all look fine, even if current "evidence" would suggest otherwise. If they can make 80-something Christopher Lee do a backflip down a set of stairs in ROTS, they can do anything with the much younger Hamill and Fisher.

    But even then, the suggestion that an actor who is 60-ish somehow NEEDS to look 30 if he or she wants to be hired for a movie or else they shouldn't get these leading parts is precisely what is so wrong with Hollywood culture and the reason why so many (especially female) actors decide to do have garish plastic surgery done on them. It's a pitiful state of affairs really. And all of you who proclaim these ageist ideas here are contributing to that situation.
  11. Vid_The_Impaler Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Well I don't know guys, I'd rather the leads in a movie be attractive. It's not just sexism or wanting to get off on them; it's part of the language of film. Attractive characters of either gender are more relatable.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't think anyone said that though. You mentioned Christopher Lee; I think that proves the point that a main character does not have to look 30. Exhibit B: Alec Guinness.

    I think it's fair to say that any of the three original actors would need to get in shape to reprise their roles, as most if not all of the actors in Star Wars films have had to get in shape (see: Hayden Christensen in ROTS) and that the film would need to take place at least 30 years post-ROTJ in order for the characters to be at least within the range of the actors' real ages. I don't think it's age-ist to say that none of the original three actors should be expected to reprise their character roles immediately post-ROTJ.
  13. Ridley Solo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2010
    star 4
    'More relatable'? [face_laugh] To who? Supermodels?

    I'm probably in the minority, but I like it when movies aren't afraid to show actors/actresses who aren't 'perfect' looking. No, they shouldn't look like druggies or anything, but a few wrinkles and gray hairs are nothing to cringe at. So much can be changed with makeup and digital touch-ups that it's not even funny.

    Carrie Fisher is a little younger than my mom. My mom isn't the epitome of youth, but she's still pretty. I know if someone was making these kind of comments about her, I'd be pretty ticked off.
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  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I think in order to keep from going in further circles, we need to clarify exactly what role we would expect Ford, Hamill and Fisher to play. Exactly how would Han, Luke and Leia be characterized? How old would they be? What would they be expected to do?

    And nobody is trashing anyone's parents here. Not all women in their 50s are the same.

    One reason I mentioned in the other thread that the original actors, if they appear at all, should be in supporting roles in which they are "passing the torch" is because they are not as young as they once were and the story needs to focus on new characters so that Disney can continue making new movies as planned. But apparently in this thread, mentioning that they need to get in shape if they are going to reprise their original roles is "age-ism." It also seems to be "age-ism" to mention that no, it is not realistic to expect them to play an immediately post-ROTJ Han, Luke or Leia since the actors are no longer in their 20s and do not look like they are still in their 20s. Some of the accusations appear to be in place to shut down discussion.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Nov 11, 2012
  15. Matsemitsu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    Sure, they couldn't. Because they don't look 25 anymore. What's ageist is the notion, which some have been peddling here, that they shouldn't play the characters at all anymore. It's far more likely that the story will pick up some 30 years or so after ROTJ anyway. Who in their right mind would write a direct sequel knowing that the original actors couldn't participate? That would just be bad business.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  16. Matsemitsu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    Then I submit with all due respect that you didn't understand the arguments of those who criticized the ageist statements. Nobody suggested it was wrong to state that Mark Hamill is now 30 years older than he was back then. He is. So is Fisher. The argument was about something else entirely. And certainly this wasn't about 'shutting down discussion' but about keeping the discussion on a level that no one needs to be ashamed about.

    Also, as pointed out above, the story isn't likely to feature 30ish Lukes and Leias anyway.
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  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Why would it be bad business if the sequel is going to take place either in a time frame that the characters haven't aged as much as the actors (such as immediately post-ROTJ) or in a time frame that the characters in question are no longer around (a century or so post-ROTJ, which would be my preference)? We don't know the time frame of Episode VII yet, and I'd say that if it takes place 30 years post-ROTJ and if the actors get in shape, which I am sure they would--again, this is not an unusual demand for Star Wars actors--then the original actors should play the characters at that age. But again, suggestions that they are not in good enough shape have been met with cries of "age-ism" to downright nastiness. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in this thread that other actors should play Luke, Han and Leia 30 years post-ROTJ.
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  18. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    There is only one person in this thread that posted anything even remotely offensive (arguably) and it seems more sexist than anything if I had to put a label to it, and the word "ageist" was being thrown around before that comment was even made. If all these accusations of "ageism" are directed to people posting opinions in other threads, then why bring those responses here?
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Nobody is directing anything at people posting in other threads--that's my point. Nobody has mentioned in this thread that other actors should play Luke, Han and Leia because the original actors were "too old." I have no idea whether that was said in another thread or not, but as you said, it doesn't matter.

    I'm not going to tell anyone what they can or can't get offended by, but this thread descended into a flamefest so quickly that I have no idea what the hell we were originally discussing. Which is why I asked whether people envisioned the actors appearing in any other time frame other than 30 years post-ROTJ, because I'd say whether they should appear at all, greatly hinges on that.
  20. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    I just home we get to see Carrie fisher back in the slave outfit
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  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    If the actors look "older than they really are" then the simple solution is to push up the age of the characters.

    Has the advantage of, potentially, pushing it into a period not covered in the books.
  22. Guybrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 3
    I originally posted that the age of the main Star Trek cast matched up with the age of Luke, Han, Leia in the new trilogy. That is if they are picking up 30-40 years after Jedi.

    Now whether or not they can reprise those roles successfully and bring in a believable performance is a legit question.
    Like I said, we will know once we leave the theater in 2015 if everyone delivered a great performance.

    That is if these rolls are being recast with younger actors? For all we know fisher ford and hamill are all being asked to do voice over work for the heir to the empire animated cartoon after clone wars wraps up.
  23. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Dude, we have been over this - those circles you mention are making me dizzy - in this thread and the PM - age-ism is about an actor being out of shape to play a certain type of character - the age-ism and prejudice is the horrible things people have said about Hamill's appearance and Fisher's mental illness.

    And since both these people have children - someone's parents are getting trashed.

    See CT's post. As appalling as they, he is at least honest and not denying the things he said.
    Last edited by ThatWanFromStewjon, Nov 11, 2012
  24. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Exactly.
  25. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4

    First of all, it would would cost an enormous amount of money to digitally de-age the actors for the entire trilogy and be an extremely pain staking effort.

    And very, very hard to get right in every single scene.

    Not a very good business idea.

    And again, you have completely missed the entire "age-ism" thing. See Matsemitsu's post above and CT's earlier posts.
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