Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Guybrush, Nov 8, 2012.
It has happened here AND in other threads.
I'm not a dude, and both playing dictionary (I know what ageism means) and persisting with the notion that people who are not offended by the same comments that offend you are "wrong" or otherwise unenlightened, isn't cool.
I'm done here. I made a big mistake in continuing this conversation past last night.
Digital de-ageing worked in Tron Legacy to an extent, but every time Clu spoke you could tell it was CGI fakery.
I don't want such travesty befalling the actors of Star Wars, if they're old then they're old.
This forum is Age-ist ! I see the light now! AGISM! AGISM AGISM! Disgusting bunch of age-ist haters.
The phrase dude, my friend or matey are not insults.
And I'm not trying to explain the meaning of of age-ism, or any other word to you. I was trying to point out to you, yet again, just like Matsemitsu also tried earlier, that the issue in question is the horrible remarks directed at Hamill and Fisher.
But you keep going back to the notion that it is any "slight" mention of their age or weight. Or as it happens, you had the notion I was somehow "hung up" in regards to Fisher.
Or that "everybody" has to agree with me.
You have just persistently overlooked what this is all about.
And yet you storm out and slam the door at me.
I understand that people get older and that's the way it is - I myself am a lot older than I was when I saw ANH in the theatre as a small child.
I just don't have any desire to see Luke, Han, and Leia in any more SW films, irrespective of their age - I feel the same way now as I would have felt if episodes 7-9 had come out in the late '80's instead of being planned in this decade.
IMHO, the story (at least in films) of these specific characters ended in ROTJ. The final scenes with Luke burning Vader's body at the funeral pyre, seeing the "Force ghosts" looking at him approvingly, and then letting Leia take him back to his friends is the perfect ending for these characters in the films.
And, for what it's worth, I'm also a huge EU fan & have enjoyed the post-ROTJ Marvel comics, the superb Zahn HTTE trilogy and Thrawn duology, etc. But, novels & comics are not films.
So, I wouldn't mind if the "big three" are mentioned in Episodes 7-9, but I don't want to see them in the films. IMHO the perfect storyline for these movies would be if they took place hundreds or thousands of years after ROTJ with a whole new generation of Jedi Knights having to fight against some new threat.
The aging thing can go either way. It worked great in the OS Star Trek movies up till ST: IV. The last two make it pretty obvious the original crew were fulfilling a contractual obligation (this becomes extended to a ridiculous extent in Generations with Kirk and that whole "trapped in the Nexus" angle). The computer work done for Tron: Legacy is way too Uncanny Valley (maybe that was the point in Clu's case?).
When it comes to the Big Three making some kind of appearance in Episode VII, I have a divided opinion. The little fangeek part of me would do cartwheels if they showed up in some kind of cameo. The bigger fan-not-so-geek prefers to let the ending of ROTJ stand on its own. It was perfect and definitely says, "This is it, folks. End of line, you won't see any more from these characters". It's nothing personal; the characters had their story arcs, those arcs were resolved, and all that is left for us to see is the personal side of their lives intertwined with the public life of the galaxy. It's a great subject to cover in print, but how many people other than SW fans would really like to see that on screen? The movies have to appeal to both hardcore SW fans and a general audience. The general audience won't care about the deep and personal details of the Big Three.
here is a look at carrie fisher's new role.
I think it is relevant to the discussion
Can we stop the pissing match please and get on with it?
I think the problem here, is how the characters have been drawn on novels since RotJ. Leia on the cover of Abyss (when which she should be roughly 63) looks 35. I think this has created a weird, unrealistic, expectation in some fans.
I see your point.
I everytime you read a book about a Leia in her 60's and you picture this - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Abyss_bg.jpg - because its on the cover of the book, facing the reality of seeing a Leia who looks like this http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=carri...9&start=37&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:52,s:20,i:285 - even though its much more realistic, could be abit......I don't want to upsetting but I can't think of another word.
I don't why it would be upsetting in the first place.
Upsetting isn't the right word, but I couldn't think of another one.
I think some people just have ideas of what the characters look like in their heads, probably largely based off the art work of the characters post RotJ, and in most of the art work the characters seem pretty ageless. So when you then get faced with a Mark Hamill that LOOKS 30 years older even though in your head he looks 10 years old, someones reaction might be "hes took old, he doesn't look the part". And I think its even more so with the woman.
And that's partly due to the fact that the publishers only have rights to the actors' likenesses as they appeared in the original films. That presents a problem when you get as far down the timeline as we have. You are now left with poor interpretations by artists who are forced to come up with their own vision as to how these characters would look at age 50 and beyond. That's hard when you have the actors right there for reference and at the appropriate age. I'm not sure if the artists are simply afraid to add wrinkles and gray hair because of offending someone or what, but a lot of the artwork has been poor in terms of showing these characters age appropriate. Although, I have to admit, it has been getting better lately. Chris Trevas has done a decent job with this in his illustrations for the Essential Reader's Guide.
But to get to the point of a long-winded response, yes, I totally agree with you. I think the images that we see on various books and other merchandise do contribute to people's expectations or lack thereof. And of course, the whole "60 is the new 40" bit that Del Rey came out with during the production of the LotF novels didn't help.
Just saw the movie RED, confirms that you could still get a great action movie with aged stars. I want them all back, plus their children...
That is if the aging stars are in good enough shape to play such a role.
I can tell you this... my mother who is in her 60's... is NOT in good enough shape to play an action star if she was asked.
It's not ageist... it's a fact.
Carrie Fisher also does not look to be in good enough shape for it either.
They'll be fine for what they will be called on to do. A lot of the action will be handled by doubles/CGI.
I'm guessing a lot of the action will be handled by whomever the main characters are... which won't be Leia, Han and Luke.
Well, whatever action they will be called on to do...the quality of their acting is the more important issue, anyway.
I'm not sure that "LIKELY"....it's possible. But I've never seen a ghost as a main character in any of the Star Wars films. And we all know that he will be the main charcter. So I'm guessing he will that he will last all three.
Last I read, it was stated he will make an "appearance" in the film which has new characters in the central roles.
Just put Han and Leia in the Falcon and let the space battle commence. Luke can use the Force.
And the new generation, who will undoubtedly be the featured players can run around, swing lightsabers, and pull out their blasters.
Interesting. Where did you read that? or "hear" that?
Check out this thread... it's in the first post