Abstinence Only

The State of the Union thread seems to be going in a different direction, so I thought it best to address this issue here.

Bush was quite correct in stating that young people, particularly teenagers (and black and hispanic teens especially, according to recent stats) are contracting diseases and (though he didn't mention it) becoming pregnant at young ages. Although he advocates Abstinence Only sex education, this is in fact part of the problem, not the solution.

America has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the world. Other countries with lower rates also have comprehensive sex education. When Bush says abstinence only, he means that information about contracpetives should not be made available. In fact, government health websites, which used to have such information, have had it removed under Bush's program.

The big worry by conservatives is that if we teach anything other than abstinence, we are encouraging children to have sex. The truth is, they are having sex anyway, and refusing to give them all the facts only makes them more curious to find out for themselves. Other countries with comprehensive sex ed have lower pregnancy rates, and I doubt that is a coincidence. I think it much more likely that in those countries, the children who are armed with all the facts of life are making their own decisions not to have sex, or at least that contraceptives are working. Possibly both.

The ultimate goal here is not to keep teenagers from having sex, but to prevent the dangerous consequences of teen sex. We don't want them to be infected with diseases, or forced to become parents as teenagers.

Our schools are prohibited from discriminating against pregnant or diseased teenagers. That means making several accomodations. High schools now have day care centers. Pregnant teens must be excused at any time to go the the nurse, and be allowed to stay home to nurse, and take their schoolwork with them.

That's not to say that I don't agree with schools having to do this. There was a time when pregnant girls were expelled from high school. That only results in having more uneducated welfare mothers, so I understand the reasoning behing keeping them in school. However, if public schools are to be required to accomodate students suffering the consequences of having sex, then educators should also be armed with all the tools of preventing those consequences, and sadly, abstinence only doesn't cut it.

 

I agree wholeheartidly.

 

However, if public schools are to be required to accomodate students suffering the consequences of having sex, then educators should also be armed with all the tools of preventing those consequences, and sadly, abstinence only doesn't cut it.

Abstinence would have helped them not get pregnant.

 

Abstinence-stressed-in addition to birth control methods-is a much better option than "abstinence-only". Bush's policy ignores reality and sacrifices the health of teenagers to please a political constituency that has its' collective head in the sand.

Peace,

V-03

 

Abstinence would have helped them not get pregnant.

If they actually practiced it, yes. But teaching abstinence in the absence of any other form of sex education doesn't keep them from having sex. Look at the stats of teen pregnancy in countries that have comprehensive sex ed (including contraception) and then tell me why it wouldn't work here.

 

You speak the truth, Obi-Ewan.

 

Now Abs, that's all well and good in theory but not in practice. If people are educated about the alternatives to abstinance and proper use of birth control, they would have to worry about the consequenses of having all thier good intentions of staying abstinent go flying out the window in the heat of the moment.

 

But what about our free-thinking, completely rational minds? Don't they have any control over our more banal instincts?

 

Try telling that a teenage couple who's in love.

 

Young teens being rational?? Did you skip puberty all together?

Also, how do you expect young teens to know about the proper precautions if nobody teaches them?

 

Teenagers? Bah! < 30 doesn't equal 'dead below the waist'!

 

O-E:In fact, government health websites, which used to have such information, have had it removed under Bush's program.

Crix:You speak the truth, Obi-Ewan.

Nope, not even close:

What about this site, from the USFDA:
OFFICAL GOV SITE

Or this site, from the NCFH:
FAMILY PLANNING

Or this site, Again from the USFDA:
HERE

Or this site, from the Dept of Health and Human Services:
HERE

AND SO ON...

You know, you have a valid point that could form the basis for an informative discussion, but it shouldn't be distracted from unsubstantiated claims and generalizations.

Instead of finding potential conspiracies in everything, why not just base your opinions on the truth?

 

I'm still not convinced Mr44, could you provide a few more sites?

Good points as always, yet I agree with V03 on this one...Abstinence-stressed-in addition to birth control methods

 

So, let me get this straight. Two young people (I have to say people, lest I not be inclusive) find themselves in close proximity of each other, probably alone, and then their clothes fall off and they proceed with sexual conduct? And all this is some uncontrollable response to the hormones the body produces? There's no chance of resisting the impulses? We're completely slaves to our body?

How completely sad. If there had been any actual restraint, those two people might have actually had a conversation, perhaps engaged each other on a mental and spiritual level, and built a foundation for something that lasts longer than Saturday night. Even if that particular relationship failed, they could have gained valuable experience on intimacy and companionship, and perhaps taken that knowledge onward in life, to the next opportunity for a meaningful relationship. They could have learned to build trust, improve their commincation skills, boost their self-esteem, practice humility and supplication (which are contrary to human nature), grown in self-awareness, the appreciation of beauty, the expression of love. (through letters, gifts, words, and sharing)



Thank God they have 9 months to prepare for the rest of their life. And they get to have a kewl baby shower with all their friends! Yay!

 

Oh, I agree DS77..

In fact, I consider V03 to be better than WebMD, here on TF.N..(just without any user fees... ...)

That's why the topic here is a valid concern.

However, I really wish I knew where half of these Bush-conspiracay theories originated.

Like with this one, you can easily get on any government site and seek out birth control information.

The President can certainly be criticized, but at least let's keep the X-files out of it.

 

If there had been any actual restraint, those two people might have actually had a conversation, perhaps engaged each other on a mental and spiritual level, and built a foundation for something that lasts longer than Saturday night.

You honestly think you're going to teach them "restraint" in a classroom?

Besides that, what business does the public school have telling them what's important to their relationships?

The schools should be teaching them the biology of the matter: this is how it works, these are the risks if you don't use protection, and these are the risks even if you do use protection.

It's up to the parents to teach them restraint - and that probably works best if they have learned restraint in other areas from a very early age.

 

Staying clear of any Bushism, so as to placate Mr44:

How completely sad. If there had been any actual restraint, those two people might have actually had a conversation, perhaps engaged each other on a mental and spiritual level, and built a foundation for something that lasts longer than Saturday night.

Human nature is designed (with exeption) to procreate. It is human nature, and quite frankly sex is part of life. Without it, we'd all not be here.

Teaching abstinence only as great; however, it is inconceivable to believe that every teen, and every unwed individual can or will remain abstinent. Not humanly possible. Therefor, denying comprehensive sex education education is not only avoiding the issue, but is causing great harm and potential repetition of such things as single-parenthood, STD transmission, and unwanted childbirths (please note that I listed unwanted childbirths seperately from single parenthood).

 

Good post Mr44.

And yes, it is indeed good to have our own WebMD in the form of V03, and of course Darth Mischievous.

 

Last time I had sex, I tried the abstinence method, and no one got pregnant.

 

i agree that sex ed shouldn't be abstinence only. i'm a "virgin till marriage" gal, but i've seen too many peoples' lives screwed up b/c of unprotected sex.

 

Mr44,

Please continue with your daily doses of propaganda. You seem to like it so much.

No need to call out those who think for themselves.

 

Last time I had sex, I tried the abstinence method, and no one got pregnant.

You had sex with the abstinence method? Oh, you poor thing, that wasn't sex.

Telling teens "don't have sex" isn't going to stop them from doing doing it, nor are fear and ignorance the proper ways to educate them. Schools are prohibited from giving any information beyond abstinence only if they want to receive government funds, despite information from CDC that making that information available did not cause an increase in teen sexuality. Those countries that have comprehensive sex education have lower teen pregnancy and STD rates than we do. One can only assume that at least some of those numbers are because educated youths are choosing not to have sex, and that decision is based on information, not ignorance.

 

Here is something I don't understand: "Abstinence-only" programs still teach what sex is, don't they? Don't they assume that the students will someday have sex, even if that is not going to be until they get married?

So what is wrong with teaching contraception as something that goes along with sex whenever the person actually engages in it? They might, after all, want to use contraception even if they're married - right?

Or are all these children supposed to marry and start reproducing as soon as possible?

 

No kidding, womberty. Of course some folks do think you aren't supposed to have sex unless you're going to reproduce, but I won't go there right now.

NGL: Last time I had sex, I didn't try the abstinence method...or the time before that, or that, or that...and so on ad infinitum. I'm an old fart here. I was having sex when some of you were still coloring with crayons.

The big worry by conservatives is that if we teach anything other than abstinence, we are encouraging children to have sex. The truth is, they are having sex anyway, and refusing to give them all the facts only makes them more curious to find out for themselves.

Yes, no kidding.

I'm not opposed to teaching abstinence as the only foolproof way to avoid pregnancy, in other words, abstinence-stressed sex education, with graphic detail of what happens when other birth control methods fail.

However, to not even teach the other birth control methods, to bury one's head in the sand and pretend that "If we don't talk about sex, they won't do it", or "If we tell them they're supposed to abstain, they will," is laughable at best. Some folks will abstain, sure. But they probably would anyway. I live, and teach public school, in a state that has "abstinence-only sex education". I can't tell you how many pregnant students I've had, in both high school and middle school.

Teenagers? Bah! < 30 doesn't equal 'dead below the waist'!

Amen, sister.

Young teens being rational?? Did you skip puberty all together?

My thoughts exactly.

Abs--if you were a rational, level-headed teenager, that's great. I wasn't, and neither are a lot of other people. We can't afford to assume that everyone is.

 

In fact, I consider V03 to be better than WebMD, here on TF.N..(just without any user fees... ...)

That is the funniest thing I have heard all day, Mr44...thanks for brightening up a lousy wednesday !

Maybe I should start charging ...

Seriously, it's perfectly "ok" to stress abstinence but teach birth control. Everybody seems to be forgetting that teenagers will experiment, and pretty much do what they want regardless of what they are taught in the classroom. Shock therapy doesn't work, and neither do threats. The real push for abstinence needs to come from the home, not the school. A lot of kids will wait for marriage, but a lot will also listen to "abstinence-only" with both ears closed and then laugh about it while they engage in after-school sex.

Best analogy I ever heard: You can build a fence around a pool, but if you know your kids are absolutely going to find their way into that water, shouldn't you teach them how to swim?

Brownie points to anyone who can tell me what 90s prime-time show for high school students the above quote is from.

Peace,

V-03