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Abuse of Power by an Administrator - I Have Been Demoted

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Lord Bane, Dec 26, 2002.

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  1. royalguard96

    royalguard96 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2001
    I will echo the question posed by UKS. It would be helpful for us regular members to be more educated on the process if we can have the proper context with which this whole thing started.
     
  2. citizen-tom

    citizen-tom Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    the question here I believe is more "Is Carter acting innappropriately?" than "Did Bane deserve to be punished?"

    Yes, Carter acted in an inappropriate manner when dealing with this situation. It seems to me that there was an argument going back and forth between him and Lord Bane (i.e. Carter was posting in bold and all caps). They're all adults in modsquad, they have to be able to disagree and argue sometimes in order to set policies. I'm not sure what it was they were arguring over, but to me it seems like Carter has something against Bane ( i.e. we should have gotten rid of you awhile ago), and maybe this ban had something to do with a past Grudge that Carter-TFN holds against Lord Bane. Many other mods who have posted here, say that they did not stand behind Bane's ban and/or demotion wich makes me think Carter was too personally involved in the situation to make a ban. Plus he totally went against policy, which is the basis of why his actions were inappropriate. Instead of getting together the Leadership Council, the group of superiors, the supreme chancellor, Josh, Scott, whoever the heck you'd like, Carter just simply made a unilatteral move not supported by the magority of other mods at the time, and demoted and then banned Bane. He's also done things similar in the past (i.e. SotS), aswell as, apparently, I wasn't involved, treating users with edges, and in one or two cases just flaming them. Carter did act inappropriatly, and from where I stand, I don't see why he's a mod anyway, except to rule the banners with an iron-fist.
     
  3. DarthKarde

    DarthKarde Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    but to me it seems like Carter has something against Bane ( i.e. we should have gotten rid of you awhile ago),

    The posts that Carter-TFN made in this thread did not give him any credit either. IMHO he made it even clearer that this was a personal grudge and not a profession decision.
     
  4. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    I feel the subject of the argument is important to know to actually have a balanced opinion here.


    I tried my hardest to just read all nine pages, but I cant actually see anything. Can someone give me an UNBIASED overview of what has been said so far?
     
  5. Rani Veko

    Rani Veko Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2000
    I don't know either of the parties concerned, and I have reserved comment on this issue. I won't get into what was said, but here is a concise (and hopefully unbiased) summary of what happened. Portions in quotations are not sarcasm, but simply the words that were used. My apologies if I've overlooked anything.

    Two mods, Carter-TFN and Lord Bane, had an argument in the ModSquad forum. It would appear they both lost their tempers, and said and did regretable things.

    Carter demoted Lord Bane.

    Lord Bane contacted him via PM and informed
    Carter he was going to go public with this perceived "abuse of power".

    Lord Bane started this thread.

    Carter banned Lord Bane for "threatening" to go public.

    Vertical and Josh were unavailable to deal with the matter at the highest level, so the mods who were available tried to compensate.

    Bane was unbanned.

    After much discussion on this thread and apparently the ModSquad, DarthSapient made a judgement call and issued a 48-hour ban for each of them, and an additional week's demotion for Carter.

    Kadue lifted the bans, but the demotions will stay in place until the issue has been reviewed by Vertical and/or Josh.


    (There have been random locking and unlocking of topics, trolling by socks, editting and/or deletion of posts, so it's no wonder that this thread is difficult to follow for someone who hasn't followed it from the start. :) )

    - Rani
     
  6. Katya Jade

    Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2002
    Dang, I'm off for one night and miss everything! ;)

    Thank you Rani that's a good summary from what I've read. :)

    This is a difficult situation and I thank Kadue, Sapient and Padme Bra for stepping up to the plate to help get at least a temporary resolution. Thanks to those mods who were so active in helping to keep this thread on track as well.

    Many issues have been discussed here. One of the main ones for me is the creation of a policy on these types of situations but also of a "Rules of Conduct" for these "private" forums - MS, AC, etc. It seems to me that these forums are meant for open and honest discussion and while I don't believe anyone should resort to insults and flaming, what is the limit in these areas?

    Someone said it well earlier (several people, in fact) that it appears both parties behaved inappropriately and both should receive some sort of "punishment" for their actions in all this.
     
  7. citizen-tom

    citizen-tom Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    One more time, Can anyone tell us what the argument about?
     
  8. DarthKarde

    DarthKarde Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    One more time, Can anyone tell us what the argument about?

    Far be it from me to talk for the mods but they seem to have decided that the details of the arguement will not be made public. I don't see that it is really important anyway. The issue that is being debated is mod punishments and abuse of powers.
     
  9. Admiral_Thrawn60

    Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2000
    Exactly. The only relevant thing about the argument is how exactly the rules were broken. Bringing the topic of the argument into this will only create bias. It's irrelevant.

    [AT60 Edit] Spelling
     
  10. citizen-tom

    citizen-tom Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    But to understand how the rules were broken, I think it is important that we know the circumstances it originated from, or what exactly was said by Bane that made Carter feel he was warranted the right to ban him. Then we can know if Carter was just, or if it is, as it seems, that he was not right in taking any action against Bane. I think it's the former, and regardless of the situation he should have consulted other mods, but it is important to know what was really said and if Bane was provoked by Carter, which seems evident. I'm just saying I think it may be important to know exactly how this originated. :)
     
  11. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    How can you have an opinion if you dont know the full story?
     
  12. citizen-tom

    citizen-tom Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
  13. Admiral_Thrawn60

    Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2000
    We know what Bane said. He told Carter to shut up. We don't need to know what they were arguing about. If we do, we may become biased based on which side of the argument we take, and that's not good. The important thing is that the rules are followed.
     
  14. DarthKarde

    DarthKarde Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    It's not necesary to know what the arguement was about. We know that there was a very mild flame from Lord Bane to Carter-TFN. Lord Bane has not accused Carter-TFN of flaming him prior to this so the rest of their arguement/debate is not important. The issues are whether or not Lord Bane should have been punished for a very mild flame and whether Carter-TFN exceeded his authority and acted inapproptiately.
     
  15. Liz Skywalker

    Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2000
    The bare bones of the arguement was this: a mod decided to go on vacation on Christmas Day. Carter didn't like that, and posted a long rant on the subject. Bane defended the mod. Carter posted in bold and caps, and Bane retaliated, telling him to "shut your mouth". Carter said that since he said that, he's out of here, and demoted him.
     
  16. citizen-tom

    citizen-tom Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    That's almost laughable. Seems like Carter has a case of Scroogeitis. If only I could ban someone every time they disagreed with me...
     
  17. Maulfly

    Maulfly Moderator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    If I may ask, does Carter have a history of treating the Mods and other Admins like this? It seems deplorable that one person with so much potential power over others in the MS would behave in such a way to those he's supposed to be working with rather than against. After all, since when should volunteers have to put up with being ranted and yelled at?

    If he does, it makes me even more conserned about how this latest act was only the most recent example of him abusing powers rather than an exception.

    And thank you, Kadue, for expanding some on the chain of command.
     
  18. FIVE-GIMER_RINGS

    FIVE-GIMER_RINGS Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Well, since you are all volunteers, they can't really stop you from going on vacation whenever you want.

    It's polite to try and let them know early so they can make sure somebody will be around, but it's not like work where you have to put in for your vacation in January or you don't get it.

    I agree that regardless of the original issue what should be looked at is the rules. Otherwise you could become biased.
    That is the precident set by the LMM demotion anyways.
     
  19. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Kadue (and DS/PB) --

    Have you given any thought to the notion of an "OIC" (Officer in Charge) scenario rather than the sharing od top-administrative duties when Vert/JG are away?

    This would eliminate the need for "consensus" amongst three top-level people and one person could be making the decision. This might help eliminate confusion or error since Vert/JG would be assigning the person in their absense.

    It's what we do at work when our senior guys are not in the office. It even works on the micro-scale when you get into departments and the heads are gone on vacation.

    So they're gone, and they assign one of the other Admins to fill in as "OIC" while they're gone. Anything that they would normally handle, the OIC would take care of in their absense -- although they'd have to justify their actions if something seemed out of place. Thus there would be accountability at all levels of the ModSquad and a direct chain of command that everyone would know about.
     
  20. dArTh_wenley

    dArTh_wenley Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2001

    It was very interesting watching this unfold (although I didn't get caught up with it) and it was pleasing to see that it got sorted speedily enough without Josh or Vertical being online. I applaud the Admins for that.

    Secondly, it shows we need concrete steps when demoting a Mod. The power shouldn't be handled by the one person alone and all the Mods should have a say to determine the fairest punishment (as it seems this was done in the past - it should have been no different this time).

    Again, thankyou for taking the best action you could under the circumstances.
     
  21. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    We know what Bane said. He told Carter to shut up.

    And with one sentence we know all?



     
  22. Admiral_Thrawn60

    Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2000
    We know all we need to know. We know what rule was broken and to what extent. The rest is irrelevant. At any rate, Liz has already filled us in. A mod took a vacation on Christmas Day, and Carter ranted about it. Bane defended him, and things got heated. Eventually, Bane told him to shut his mouth. We know what happened then.
     
  23. Sar-Tamber-lac

    Sar-Tamber-lac Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 24, 2002
    After takin a few Tylenol to control the headache readin this thread gave me...

    We know all we need to know. Much has been said. I'm not sure what else there is to say. The only thing we can do now is wait. I know that's a hard concept for some people to grasp, but right now, that's all we can do. Wait for some official word, and see what guidlines are to come from this. Starting up an argument about who said what, and how do we know this or that isn't goin to do anything but create more drama. Let's just wait and see what happens, and we'll go from there... :)
     
  24. UK Sullustian

    UK Sullustian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1998
    "The rest is irrelevant"

    Example 1:

    User A: "Your mum is easy and smells and is nasty to old ladies"

    User B: "Shut up, you useless useless person!"

    Example 2:

    User A: "I like picking flowers and helping little dogs across the road."

    User B: "Shut up, you useless useless person!"

    See? The Context of the argument gives the "flame" extra weight and/or mitigating circumstances.

    There is a lot of suspicions and hypothesising going on here, and lot of it is being built on semi-truths and assumptions. It may be easier to this case and the associated causes and points that occur, if the actual facts can be narrowed down to what actually happened.

    Sherlock UKS

    EDIT: Wrong markups.
    EDIT2: Supersititons? I meant suspicions.
     
  25. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    Thanks for that UKS :)
     
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