Academy Awards and Star Wars

I am new to these boards but for the longest time I have thought about this. How can the Academy Awards continue to deny the Star Wars movies their due?

With LOTR: Return of the King winning 11 Academy Awards including Best Director and Best Picture that should be the best argument for letting Star Wars to win a major Academy Award.

Having just seen LOTR:ROTK it was a pretty good movie. I would even say it deserved all its awards that it got. But that movie can't hold a candle to Star Wars. Sure Episodes 1 and 2 were not that good but certainly 3 - 6 were of the same caliber of LOTR:ROTK and yet ROTS got 1 nomination. What an insult. Even Passion of the Christ which ruffled more feathers in Hollywood got 3 nominations but surely ROTS didnt generate the criticism that Passion of the Christ did.

Some people say that Sci-Fi/Fantasy films won't win Best Picture but LOTR:ROTK did.

What does everyone think?

 

Much of it is political because Hollywood hates Lucas. That said, A New Hope did win six Oscars and was nominated for four more including Alec Guiness as Best Supporting Actor and Lucas as Best Director.

 

TPM & AOTC should of at least been nominated for costumes. The Black outfit with feathers that Keira Knightly wore was hand croqueted by hand & the refugee dress in AOTC was hand embroidered.

Its completely indefensible that they were snubbed for costumes. In my opinion they are the best costumes since Barry Lyndon ( which was made in the 70s but because the costumes are so accurate & well made it looks like it was made yesterday).
Not ONE nomination how suspicious is that?

 

Star Wars was nominated for best picture, best screenplay, best director and best supporting actor. It won an additional seven.

Star Wars was honored because it was well-made, accessible to everyone and truely was "the years best movie" as the Time magazine cover story proclaimed that summer. The sequels weren't--and simply couldn't--have had any of the impact that the original film did. It was just a whole culture revolution--and it wasn't based on special effects; the characters and the plot became cultural icons. The sequels were popular and they all swept the technical categories, but they didn't recieve the "big" nominations (picture, director, screenplay, actor) because the films didn't have the same cinematic impact.
The prequels i felt were ignored even in the technical categories, mainly, i am guessing, because they were regarded as unpopular.

 

Well Crash was unpopular. Didn?t stop them from giving it ?best picture.?

 

Eh. The Oscars are mostly a joke nowadays anyway. It'd be nice to see Lucas get a lifetime achievement award, but even that's unlikely, just like Scorsese very likely might never get a statuette from them until he's nearly dead.

 

I'm really not too sure of this, but I believe that Lucas withdrew from the Major Motion Picture Academy after they fined him some rediculous sum of money for not having opening credits at the begining of ESB. I don't think he ever returned so I don't think his movies can win an award. If I'm wrong on this I'm sure someone will correct me

 

Thats incorrect. Independent and studio pictures are equal. Lucas resigned from the writers guild and the DGC which i doubt had any affect on academy voters, who at the time were in love with the "radical and independent" American New Wave.

And Crash was wildly popular with critics, i don't know what you are talking about.

 

Oh you meant critics! i thought you were talking about normal people.
but you know ROTS got better reviews than Crash - check out the tomatometer on rotten tomatoes.
Crash 75%
ROTS 82%

i think the prequels were missing the "****" factor that seems to be mandatory for nominations these days.

 

LOL! That's a keeper!

I think the snubbing began after ANH and accelerated with every film. Although TESB earnt solid nominations in the areas of "Best Sound", "Best Art Direction", "Best Score" and "Special Achievement for Visual Effects", I really think it should have been nominated for "Best Cinematography", too; Peter Suschitzky's three dimensional lighting of Dagobah, and his Stygerian approach to the carbon freezing chamber on Cloud City, are absolutely stunning. "Return of the Jedi" got snubbed further, but it wasn't until the prequels, and "Revenge of the Sith" especially, that "Star Wars" took it in the kisser -- big time. C'mon. "Return of the King" gets eleven nominations and wins them all? How on MIDDLE EARTH??? One of the Oscars was even for "Best Editing". Best Editing. Ha! (Try telling that to Christopher Lee or all the people who complained about the endless endings). Howard Shore also won for "Fellowship of the Ring" and again for "Return of the King", yet John Williams wasn't nominated for a SINGLE prequel? Yeah, right. Not to even give "Revenge of the Sith" nominations for "Best Sound" or "Best Visual Effects" is also ABSURD. The Academy is a very political organisation -- it always has been and it always will be.

 

Star Wars should have won best pic '77. As well as directing and supporting actor. Empire should have won best score, best set direction, nominated and won for best supporting actor Frank Oz, a best makeup award (Was there one back then?), a best cotume design, sounde editing, and sound mixing.

 

I'll agree on ANH. You know what beat it? Annie Hall.

Now, I like Woody's movies too, but come on.

 

But Lucas did win the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Oscars in 1992! It is called the Irving Thalberg Award, and he won it long before the prequels, and long after they supposedly started dissing him at the Oscars.

He has also won a lifetime Achievement Award from the AFI last summer, so for all the Lucas conspiracy theorists, what else do you want? I am not here to defend the Oscars, cause I still haven't liked them since Saving Private Ryan got shafted, but I don't think they hate Lucas or anything?

I just think that they were just not going to give SW any more awards cause they rarely do with sequels. Now the only reason Return of the King took home so many statues was cause it was more a combo of all 3 movies that they held off on, and it was a weak year with nothing really big that it was against in 2003. Other than the Godfather Part II, I can't recall any sequel that has ever won anything at the Oscars.

If you guys want a conspiracy, go watch an Oliver Stone movie, Lucas has gotten his due by the academy, but they just are not going to give awards for all 6 movies, whether it is right or not, they just don't do it, they mostly try to focus on original movies, and not sequels.

 

I'm not even going to try to guess what a "****" factor is, but the Academy at the least last year, gravitated far more to films that were making social commentary and the Prequel simply don't have social commentary except possibly(and I'm reaching incredibly far here) about how a dictator can subvert a democracy but that's been seen multiple times throughout history.

I agree that Star Wars should have beat Annie Hall.

Exactly, Star Wars got it's kudos almost thirty years ago. I'd have loved for it to get Oscars but that's not how the Academy works. You'll also notice that The Matrix only got Special Effects awards for the first one.

They also may have just not liked the Prequels as much as they did the other films which doesn't point towards any conspiracy but simply a difference in taste.

There's also the fact that Lucas has gotten the Academy's Lifetime Achievement award as was mentioned and he also got the American Film Institute's life time achievement award so Lucas has gotten his acclaim.

I do however think that more nominations would have been nice, I just don't see any of it as being that unusual.

 

Awards and nominations are great and a lot of fun, but they aren't necessary for me to recognize and appreciate the quality of each STAR WARS movie.

 

I agree [face_alien_1] I also think that Lucas pissed off many Hollywood types when he pulled out of the Writers & Directors Guild back in 1980 and his movies have never recovered. Nowadays, to get an Oscar nomination, it must be an artsy fartsy kind of movie...the kind of movie that rarely makes any money because you fall asleep and who wants to pay $9 to sleep in an uncomfortable movie theater when it's free at home?

 

Trisha Biggar was completely screwed over by the academy! What actually did win best costume design this year?

 

They must have really hated Lucas in 1981, a year after he left the guild, and gave him a Best Picture Nomination for Raiders of the Lost Ark, which the Executive Producer is the one that would have received it if it won. Raiders of the Lost Ark received 10 Nominations that year. Granted it didn't win, but when was the last action/adventure movie to even get nominated for anything by the Academy? So I think you guys have to revise when the Academy started hating Lucas again, maybe 1982 now, or 1983 with ROTJ?

 

Pride and Prejudice I believe.

 

Let's look at this again. I believe that the Academy snubbed Lucas. The film that definitely should have won best picture is the last one. It delivers on all levels. If you can give it to LOTR:ROTK you can ABSOLUTELYgive it to ROTS.

Also John Williams was insulted for not getting a nomination and I feel that he should have won it too. ROTS was the best Star Wars music since ANH in my opinion.

 

Well, it's arguable, but the Academy felt ROTK was strong on all fronts, acting and so forth, to where Supporting Actor had recieved a nomination in the past. ROTS, on the other hand, didn't have a strong acting front, nor in directing, so that film really didn't have the proverbial "bases covered." Giving ROTS an award would simply be giving Lucas an award simply because he's George Lucas, not because he deserved it. LOTR had a consistently strong outing with each chapter, which is more than can be said about the Prequels.

And as for Williams, he's done better. Now, I love John Williams and his work, but much of ROTS was recycled music, and not where his stuff was adapted and rewritten to reflect a scene, but just played over video. The funeral for Padme was pretty much note for note the same as the music played for Qui-gon six years earlier. Not only that, but the ending credits had twenty year old music played verbatim, such as the Throne Room theme and Leia's theme, and not modified to reflect a different film. Williams didn't show creativity in his score for ROTS, there wasn't a theme played that was reinvigorated for a new film. It was looped, if not directly lifted from ANH and ROTJ; not only that, but Battle of the Heroes, the only new theme, is not enough to warrant a nomination.

 

Damn right it's arguable!

Ian McKellan's nomination for "Fellowship of the Ring" was well-deserved, but let us not forget: Alec Guinness was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for "Star Wars" in 1978. It can also be argued that he laid the groundwork for Ian McKellan -- a wisened thespian playing a wisened wizard, and doing so with utmost seriousness, in a lush fantasy picture. In this respect, Guinness' performance is of greater aesthetic and cinematic importance.

With all due respect, I find a statement of that nature to be completely erromeous. It is merely one opinion. These things are a matter of subjective interpretation -- not fact. I personally think that the filmmaking is of a high calibre in both instances.

Again, with all due respect, I find that statement to be as erroneous, and for the same reasons, as the last.

One last time: I find that to be an erroneous statement. Nonetheless, in this case, I do agree; I would personally say that "Fellowship of the Ring" was more accomplished than "The Phantom Menace", and "The Two Towers" possibly some way ahead of "Attack of the Clones"; "Return of the King" and "Revenge of the Sith", however, I find to be near-equals, with ROTS, if anything, actually superior.

My opinion is simply this: the Academy dropped the ball. They should have showered "Fellowship of the Ring" with awards; it's the first of the "Lord of the Rings" films, it's the most accomplished (in my eyes) and the most faithful to Tolkien's work. But the Academy didn't give it half the acclaim it was due. "Return of the King" was their waiting-in-the-wings apology and correction. But here's the rub: I felt that Sofia Coppola's "Lost In Translation" was a vastly superior motion picture. I also felt that it was more significant and more of a breakthrough -- we'd already had two "Lord of the Rings" pictures, as well as other lyrical fantasy epics like "Excalibur", "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Superman" (all of which should have gotten "Best Picture" nods, in my humble opinion) -- but Sofia made a staggeringly intimate, truthful, artistic, understated, almost magical film, with a fresh approach to mood, style, screenplay, acting, music and human emotion. People can bleat about the towering achievement of the "Lord of the Rings" pictures all they like, but fundamentally, and certainly after "Fellowship", they offered nothing new, nor were they controlled enough to warrant "Best Director" or "Best Picture" nominations, in my opinion. However, since "Return of the King" did scoop these awards, and only since it did, I would say that Lucas was robbed of these awards for "Revenge of the Sith". In reality, however, there were better motion pictures, from my perspective, in both 2003 and 2005.

There was a degree of "recycling" in which pre-existing material was tracked into the newer film -- yet the majority of it was fresh; i.e. adapted and uniquely orchestrated.

Note for note, perhaps, but the arrangement was completel

 

BRAVO Cryogenic!! My thoughts EXACTLY!!!

The Oscars are a joke! Meryl Streep put it BEAUTIFULLY several years back. From memory she said, "It's like a clown competition and they chose who was the best clown this year"

Strangely, Meryl has not won nor do I think she's even been nominated since she made that comment despite continuing to produce wonderful performances ("The Hours" immediately comes to mind).

I'll throw in the absolute joke of Randy Newman finally winning his Oscar after 15 nominations for a song that could basically be described as "average" thus robbing Enya's beautiful and vastly superior "May It Be" from Fellowship. ("Don't worry, LOTR fans, we'll make up for that in Return of the King, WE PROMISE!", the Academy cries)

Paul Newman, anyone! Al Pacino, anyone! Aw, let's just give 'em an award coz we forgot to do it before...

Hhhhm... and we all thought you're supposed to win an Oscar based on your "best achievement in film" in that particular year

And finally I would add that if "Titanic" with its "below par" acting and its "even more below par script" can win Best Picture, and Halle Berry can win Best Actress, that REALLY does not say much for the ol Academy in my opinion.

 

Hoola! Thanks, bebbie.

I actually forgot several musical compositions, including, but not limited to: the first statement of "Across The Stars" as Anakin and Padme embrace in the shadows, the exciting brass segment that plays as Palpatine and Mace lock sabres, the gothic music that plays as the film cuts between the slayed younglings, Palpatine declaring his Empire and Anakin killing the Separatists, the rich bombastic piece that plays as Obi Wan talks to Padme and the film cuts to Anakin on Mustafar, and last, but not least, "Anakin's Immolation".

Meryl Streep is, in my opinion, the most talented actor/actress on the planet. I adore her. Everything she does is Oscar-worthy.

The Academy makes many strange choices -- but its biggest sins are always sins of omissions. Truthfully, if you win an Oscar, your work is bound to be worth watching, but very often, a victory for one person/film comes at the expense of someone or something else (and unreasonably so). The likes of Alfred Hitchock, Stanley Kubrick and Martin Scorsese, for example, have never won "Best Picture" or "Best Director" statues. The history of the Academy is littered with injustices.

 

With all due respect, I find a statement of that nature to be completely erromeous. It is merely one opinion.

Technical, it's all opinion, including what the Academy decides on, and in light of that and by that argument, the whole discussion is "erromeous".

But anyway, who can figure out the Academy? The list of directors who should have one but didn't is staggering. ROTS got nominated only for customes???? First, why did it even get nominated in this catagory? Second, why weren't effects or sound-editing nominated?

On the other hand, the Academy has recognized some really great directors and movies. And as it effects SW, I think ANH did very well.