Academy Awards and Star Wars

Oh Lordy!! Where did you pull THAT one from????

Where is your proof? Or is this merely your assumption?

 

Loco_for_Lucas

I don?t believe a word you just said.

 

It's quite clear seeing as how Lucas created the Special Editions, used technology of the time to cover up the effects of the originals, and sought to bury those original editions, going so far as to say they were on VHS, "if anyone wants them." What kind of respect is that for amazingly influencial films. He abandoned them because of their dated look, saying the DVD versions were the ones he wanted out there. Effects artists worked hard to realize Lucas' vision, doing the best they could, and succeeding, only to have him give the ultimate insult and abandon them.

Even now, the films aren't getting restored, they're simply getting a transfer from the laserdisc edition.

What made it so unbelievable?

 

You?re total lack of respect for fellow human beings.
Bad manners. bad history.
why would i have any reason to believe you?



that wasn?t meant as a flame by the way. He asked me a question & I answered it honestly.

 

Bad manners? I don't see how my manners are "bad."

And what history do you refer to? I've maintained peaceful and civilized conversations. Simply because I don't dilute my opinions and don't agree with everyone doesn't make me a "bad manner"-ed person. If you're so biased against someone with whom you disagree with, then that's your own problem, not mine.

 

Let's not get personal. It's too late in the evening now -- but I shall return tomorrow with a thorough dissection of Loco's posts. That's the way to debate. I just got banned for saying less than you in this very thread, darthzeppo! Just some friendly advice.

 

I look forward to that, Cryo.

If anyone takes issue with what I have to say, approach me on what I have said, not on my character. By all means, I don't take my own word as gospel. Disagree with me. Please, I encourage it. My opinions are mine, I except them to be challenged. That's what I come here for, not a personal assessment made because a person can't come up with an argument.

 

I do base my distrust on emotion so you are right on that front.

Sorry if it came across as harsh or immature. I don?t want to attack you or get into a flame war.

 

Effects artists worked hard to realize Lucas' vision

I think Loco_for_Lucas brings up a good point, and it's something that kinda bothers me about the SEs and the various versions of the changing "vision" and so on. George Lucas is the creator, of course. But thousands of other people worked very hard on these films (the OT). Copyright-wise, these films may be Lucas' movies; but intellectually or artistically, they belong, in a way, to everyone who worked on and contributed to them. Movies of that magnitude are huge group efforts, not the work of a single individual. Altering or deleting parts of the films is, in a way, ignoring or denigrating the efforts of these countless other individuals. Star Wars and all the other films and products do indeed spring from George Lucas' vision...but they do not showcase only Lucas' vision. They also showcase the visions of many other people who worked hard to make these movies the outstanding success that they are.

 

Stuff gets deleated from films all the time. It?s just part of the filmaking process.
I?d say quet a few of those people that worked on the OT are?dead or have moved on to do other things.
A lot of the models and puppets are still there they?ve just had the black & fuzzy lines removed.

 

In other words, it is an assumption on your behalf. Thank you for clarifying that.

 

Ummm, no, Lucas has said the DVD editions are the ones he "wants out there." He said so himself, and said that the other ones are on VHS "if anyone wants them." Clear indications of him abandoning the previous releases due to cosmetic differences.

 

Except that the original Emperor's appearance did not have the "black and fuzzy lines removed," nor did the original X-Wings that were replaced with CG-Wings on their way to the Death Star. By saying the original artists are either dead or have moved on is to disrespect their effort which was captured on film and shown to the world. If their efforts are belittled to the point of being explained away (to the point that the artist is probably dead), why should the Academy respect ROTS or the Prequels if the artists of the past are not respected or recognized anymore?

 

Those artists were awarded, at least the ones in ANH were. They?ve also have 9/10 film critics on their side. Other artists took what they did and mimicked it ? the greatest compliment you can receive.


The Emperor in ESB - it makes sense & looks better

The original Xwings are still there except in some added shots.

When Han runs into the Storm troupers in ANH it looks better in the SE because there?s a whole battalion of them. In the originals there?s like three guys ? it?s just not as humorous if it?s only three.

Part of the process of film making is having stuff edited out. Padmes dress for the senate speech for AOTC took a lot of effort to make & it was edited out. It's part of the job.

It still does not excuse the Academy ignoring the work that went into the PT.

 

Doesn't change what I've said in Lucas disrespecting those artists twenty years later...

Where are the original X-Wings in this shot?

[image=http://www.30doradus.org/spaceships/images/xwings.gif]

Since this is the shot I was talking about.

You're pretty much acknowledging and making excuses for Lucas to disrespect the artists of a film, so that means is it okay for the Academy to simply not recognize an artist in a Lucas production if he doesn't care enough to respect them twenty years from now when their work looks dated?

It's one thing to cut a film before it's released in preproduction, to cut a shot or alter an element before it goes out to press, it's another to alter elements and insult their work vocally twenty years later, and throw it out to the curb. It's simply making excuses for Lucas to rationalize his conduct. I find the main rationalization behind this logic is that "preproduction" is extended to twenty years after the film is released. Lucas is the only filmmaker that gets that excuse made for him.

Hmmm, it seems Lucas has done much worse since he doesn't respect his own films or the work done by his own staff. It's grossly hypocritical for someone who claims to stand for film preservation and go on about classic films being a part of "our national heritage" yet disrespect iconic films such as Star Wars. So, no, Lucas is the biggest offender here since he makes a hypocrite out of himself by his own actions and words.

So, why should the Academy recognize anything of Lucas' when he himself doesn't?

 

So the PT artists should be punished because Lucas has done stuff you don?t like.

What kind of argument is that? You are saying
?I don?t like my neighbor because he?s a jerk so I will kill his children as punishment.?
Is that logical? Is that fair?

Yes, Star Wars is not all about Lucas. But you want it both ways.

OT = Nothing to do with Lucas=artists deserve award
PT = all about Lucas because he has done stuff I don?t like =artists deserve nothing.

 

No.

Artists do their work, some of which is rewarded, but Lucas is free to disrespect them simply because he is the owner. If he doesn't respect effort twenty years later, why should an independent entity from Lucas, give the honors if Lucas won't later on? There is yet to be an answer to that...

 

If he doesn't respect effort twenty years later, why should an independent entity from Lucas, give the honours if Lucas won't later on? Loco

But in ignoring the prequels the PT artists have been ignored. It?s not just Lucas.



Answerer this. Why should Trish Beggar pay for Lucas?s crimes?

 

By the Academy, because Lucas doesn't ultimately care.

If their own creator doesn't care, WHY should anybody? Nobody has answered that yet.

By the Academy's standards, they're rewarding someone who will still be recognized twenty years from now; if their own production leader doesn't care, why "waste" a nomination on someone that could very well be disregarded afterwards?

 

If their own creator doesn't care, WHY should anybody? loco


1 because the PT costumes were awesome
2 because Lucas doing stuff you don?t like has nothing to do with the quality of costumes
3 who says Lucas doesn?t care?
4 Awards should be given on artistic merit Not used to punish people for doing stuff you don?t like.

Lucas doing stuff you don?t like has nothing to do with the PTs intrinsic merit.

 

According to you, but in twenty years time, will that be the consensus? What will Lucas think of them? Neither of us knows.

I'm not on the Academy voting party.

Twenty years later, Lucas abandoned the work done by his artists in favor of more contemporary looks. He said the original trilogy was on VHS "if anyone wants them." How's that for caring?

Punishing? I dunno about that, but why should the Academy give something they view as prestigious to something that the owner could very well devalue later on? It's their vote, and if it's going to be thrown away by someone with an egotrip, they might as well give it to someone who will be appreciated by, at least, their own director. They seem to care more about their award than Lucas does about his own production staff.

You're making this about me when the thread is about the Academy...

And still, you haven't broached the idea of Lucas abandoning previous works.

 

How many movies have websites dedicated to their costumes & the costumes of one character?

http://www.rebelshaven.com/SWFFAQ/

http://www.padmeswardrobe.com/indexx.php

Are two & what about the exhibition? What about the costumes being in vogue?

Is it worth nothing because Lucas screwed with the OT? - which automatically means he doesn?t appreciate the people who worked on the OT ? that is an assumption. People are trying to read Lucas?s mind. What does he really think? Does it matter? Who really cares? We can't read his heart - we are not G-d.

Why can?t the movies stand alone, without Lucas hate, without being compared to the OT. without the Ses being dragged into it Why not say,
? yes people worked hard on these new movies and it?s a shame they didn?t get anything.?

I watched the making of ROTS a lot of work went into it. It?s not a good argument to say that they should be punished for the faults of others.


A note on the costumes ? many of them were hand embroidered & hand beaded - which looks better than machine but is long tedious work & hard to do well ? I know because I do it as a hobby.
The wedding dress ( Edwardian in design) was made out of a 100 year old bead spread.
The gold on the headdresses was real and the wigs were human hair(plastic never looks as good under lights).
The Naboo guards costumes in TPM were based on the WW1 allies. If you consider that the invasion of Naboo is much like the invasion of Ethiopia before ww2 it makes sense.

 

Err...umm...no, I'm not...

No, I'm saying Lucas could very well not care about them in the future, and if that's the case, the Academy has no reason to waste a nomination on something its own creator won't care for.

Big deal. You can find whatever you want on the Internet, if you search for it. That doesn't mean anything, and simply because there are websites dedicated to it, has nothing to do with the merit it should recieve from the Academy.

Vogue? What does that have to do with anything? Matrix styled clothing was en vogue, big whoop.

No, it's not an assumption. Lucas said so himself, that the originals were out on VHS "if anyone wants them" and that the DVD versions are the ones he "wants out there." Are you going to deny the man's own words?

People worked hard...

...but if Lucas won't care, why should anyone?

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Like I said, you're making me the object of this thread when it's the opinion of the Academy I'm trying to assume. If you can't differentiate between the two, then that's your problem.

 

Yes Loco but it is an known fact that Lucas has never been happy with the effects in the OT, especially ANH. He?s been saying that for nearly 30 years! That?s not defaming any one?s work, it has always been frustration at the limitation of the technology at the time, and new technology has allowed him to correct those limitations. Therefore, I feel accusing Lucas of not respecting the artisans who make his work come to life is not a true and fair statement. It is only your opinion and assumption and not a fact.

Did it ever occur to you that those same artists could have been damn frustrated to all hell at the time that they couldn?t get things right ? not because they did not have the talent, because they did not have the technology. I suggest you watch FROM STAR WARS TO JEDI particularly where they feature the making of the Sy Snootles scene and the endless frustrations of not been able to get it looking right. And then of course, there are those annoying matte lines... Again, limited technology is the only thing to blame here?

By the way, Dennis Muren, who was the head of the Special Effects team on the OT, was also one of the Visual Effects Supervisors on the SE. Are you going to accuse him of not caring and respecting the work put in by his team on the OT????????

Maybe they don?t. And that just goes to serve my dissatisfaction with them and prove my point. They do hold grudges and snub films because of these grudges, amongst many other things and that in turn makes the Academy Awards a total farce. The Awards themselves are supposed to be about best achievement in film making in the year just passed and not about grudges or anything ever for that matter.

 

It's maybe worth noting that Lucas' friend and contemporary, Steven Spielberg, hasn't won tons of Oscar awards, either. After years of making movies, many of which were excellent and/or huge hits, he didn't win an Oscar until 1994, for Schindler's List. (I'm speaking of Oscars for Spielberg himself, not for things awarded to Best Picture or Best Visual Effects and so on.)

I think there is bias and Hollywood insider stuff going on with the Academy, definitely. But if Lucas suffers from it, I don't think he is the only one, i.e. he's not the victim of some huge plot or something. I think this happens to other directors and movies all the time. That being said, I'm not a PT cheerleader so the lack of Oscars for the PT isn't a huge concern for me, although I agree with darthzeppo that the costuming was quite noteworthy.

In the end, whether or not a film receives official accolades shouldn't affect our enjoyment of the film. I love the Evil Dead and other Bruce Campbell movies, and I'm pretty sure he's never won an Oscar. :lol: