BTS According to Gary Kurtz...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Nub, Sep 22, 2012.

Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
  1. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    That's about the only instance in which it could be considered 'dark', but yeah, it's a great example of how it could be done.

    The other times the theme is used in a minor mode are always used as a specific motif for Luke:

    - SW/ANH - introduction to Luke on Tatooine
    - ESB - introduction to Luke on Hoth
    - ESB - Luke's arrival at Bespin
    - ROTS - baby Luke is delivered to the Lars homestead
    (Pretty sure there's a couple of others)

    It may have been possible to work the theme into the Anakin reveal in ROTJ, rather than the beautifully sad rendition of the Imperial March, as that could have cemented it as the 'Skywalker Theme' rather than Luke's. At that time, however, a Prequel Trilogy was the furthest thing from GL's mind, he just wanted it all over. I absolutely adore the treatment of the Imperial March in that scene, anyway.

    The theme does occur throughout the Saga in its more bombastic 'action' version, however, and doesn't necessarily include Luke (although it usually does). IIRC, in an old discussion on the topic, someone cited an instance(s) in TPM and/or AOTC.
  2. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    I like it. Not unlike Theoden's death in Return of the King, which Tolkien apparently did for the exact same reasons both Han & Lando were potentially up for a noble death - redemption and upping the stakes for the rest. Only problem with Lando dying that close to the end of the film (as opposed to Theoden dying at the end of Act 2) would require another scene with the heroes reflecting on his death, not unlike the Vader funeral pyre, & the film of ROTK illustrates how you can have "too many endings".

    I agree that killing Han wouldn't have worked, simply because so much time would have been devoted to his rescue (and was). Thematically, I understand why the idea may have had some appeal, but putting Han in carbonite in ESB forced the filmmakers into a corner.
    It didn't happen, anyway, & never even made its way into a treatment. You can't really criticise anyone for an idea that was never realised (similar to the appearance of 10-yo Han Solo in ROTS, which actually was in an early draft).

    Again, Kurtz is giving far too much weight to a plot point that was nothing more than an idea being thrown around with dozens of others that were similarly rejected.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Oct 22, 2012
  3. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    ESB with the Imperial March, ROTJ with a version of the 'Jedi/Force/Hero/Twin Suns' theme.

    (or Yub Nub...;) ).

    "Luke Skywalker's theme" did, of course, become "The Star Wars Theme", and it became the rule that an entry in the Saga must begin against a star background with the yellow scroll & the familiar theme playing, but it's interesting when you realise that this wasn't the plan all along, even though it was effectively set in stone with the 1980 release of ESB and then sealed forever with ROTJ.

    With the new films coming along, the ambiguity has become somewhat relevant again - will 'Episode 7' (I refuse to use Roman numerals, as I'm still not sure it'll be presented as "Star Wars: Episode VII") begin the same way as Episodes I-VI? Could there be new episode numbering, something other than the yellow scroll against stars - maybe even new opening theme music?

    (Yeah, I know that's something that could be discussed over on the Episode 7 forums, but it's still relevant to the past development, and posting such an issue over there would be less effective than writing it on a Post-It note wrapped around a rock & hurling it over Niagara Falls. Ugh)
    eht13 and Yunners like this.
  4. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    If John Williams is not involved, it will probably be some new arrangement of the main theme, or even a totally new theme with some references to the original theme... I can't see a new composer using the exact same version of the theme for the new films... (considering that there will be MANY films!)
  5. jedi-phish Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Haven't posted in these forums in several years, but like many, the recent sequel news has re-ignited the SW flame within me much like the announcements in the mid-90s did.

    Being 41 years old, I'm truly a child of the Star Wars generation (was 5 yrs old with Star Wars was released). Like those on this forum, I've always enjoyed the prospects of what might have been with each installment, having thoroughly enjoyed reading all the various iterations and drafts of the scripts that are available.

    I tend to agree with the great majority of fans my age that TESB was a far superior film to ROTJ, which means that I'm keenly "open" to any comments that indicate what other storylines might have been planned for sequels to TESB. So, Kurtz's comments have always intrigued me; much in the same way that Lucas' early drafts intrigued me. Regardless what an awesome movie the first or second draft of The Adventures of Anakkin Starkiller might have been, I'm thankful that we got the Star Wars (A New Hope) that we did.

    I discovered the early drafts in the mid-90s when the Internet came of age. For anyone who's read them, you will immediately notice that the early scripted role of Leia, which evolved into what Leia actually became on-screen, was actually re-imagined and re-used for Amidala in TPM.

    There are great storylines in many of the movies. EPs I, IV, V, and VI all contain plots or storylines that were born out of Luca's original ideas written in the early to mid 1970s. There are also letdowns with most of the films, except for IV and V (IMO).

    I think the most poignant comment made in this thread attributable to Kurtz is that the Saga would have played out differently (and perhaps better than it has) if there had not been gaps in production - if we had gotten a film in 1986, 1989, 1992, 1995, 1998, and 2001 to conclude things. Sure, the CGI technology wasn't there at the time, but we all know that CGI is not necessary to make great films, in fact it can actually destroy them (e.g. Jar Jar).

    In closing, I'm glad that the Star Wars universe in movies will continue. I'm as excited as ever and hopeful that JJ Abrams will restore peace to the galaxy far far away (and also some incredible battling as well).
    Ord-Mantell70 likes this.
  6. jedi-phish Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Some concepts that either got discarded along the way or are just in my head that I would have like to have seen:

    - the black-on-white crawl opening for The Empire Strikes Back (which each film's crawl being designed distinctly)
    - lesser focus on the episode number (the heavy use of "Star Wars" as the title to promote all the prequels was a product of how many franchises were promoted in the 90s).
    - The Imperial Capital (Had Abbadon) being the principal location for much of the action in ROTJ (mainly for the Emperor)
    - No 2nd Death Star, at least not as a principal location for action
    - Luke and Leia not being siblings
    - filming all of ROTJ outside the US - to US viewers the Sequoia forests are too identifiable.
    - Less Jar Jar (less Gungans in general)
    - more real sets and real location shooting for Eps II and III
    - Yoda realized mainly through puppeteering, with limited use of CGI - the CGI does NOT equal the performance given in TESB in my opinion.
    - A better answer to who Sifo Dyas was
    - For Count Dooku to play a larger role in EP III (was it really necessary to replace his character with Gen Grievous?? when they served the same purpose basically)
    - For Anakin to be introduced at an older age than he was in Ep I.
    Yunners likes this.
  7. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Is this really an exception to its quality?
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Not necessarily, it's more of a personal preference. I couldn't stand ROTS due to its Murphy's-Law plot.
    _Catherine_ likes this.
  9. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    No argument there, but everyone who dies or gets screwed over in that movie pretty much stays dead or screwed over forever. If ESB was the end of the story, the ending would suck, but I don't think there's anything wrong with a downer cliffhanger that gets resolved with a happy ending in the next movie.
  10. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    I agree, the end of TESB was done perfectly. But it was pretty damn frustrating in 1980, knowing it would be years to see what happened next. :p
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  11. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Off-topic, but they really don't.
  12. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    There's an interview with Irvin Kershner from a couple of years ago which suggested that even if they had carried on after the OT, GL was planning on taking a break for a couple of years, which would have seen Episode I released in 1988/89 (maybe up against Batman and Last Crusade, now that I think about it!).

    It's a massive what-if, and one that never happened because of too many overriding factors - ESB getting out of control, Kurtz splitting with LFL, GL's divorce. Realistically, it could only ever have happened if GL had followed his late-1977 plan to have other filmmakers make all the other SW films apart from the very last one, and the stress he went through over ESB obliterated the idea of that ever happening. It would still have been his money.

    You also have to wonder if the world would have been a bit sick of Star Wars by the early 1990s anyway, in which case each new film could have been a bigger financial risk. Even Episode I circa 1988 wouldn't have been a sure thing - it's Star Wars, but with a completely new cast & characters (droids & a few cameos aside). Apart from the actual dedicated fans who desperately wanted to see the backstory, the story was over for the majority of audiences - their favourite heroes lived happily ever after.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Feb 13, 2013
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    We'll find out soon enough, it seems.
  14. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Kurtz is interesting. Some things I agree with while others I do not. I agree with him that Luke and Leia should not have been brother and sister, I felt it was tacked on and not needed. However I disagree with him regarding Vader. It worked out much better this way with Vader killing the Emperor and redeeming himself, than having Luke simply offing him in E9.

    With Jedi the criticisms that people have with it are using Ewoks rather than Wookies and having "Another" Death Star. Kurtz issues seem separate and different from those common ones.

    Also in regards to the PT, I doubt people wanted to see what he suggested, the criticisms (including mine) stem from the Execution of the story not the story itself. I believe most people wanted to see the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker and him becoming Darth Vader but the criticisms stem from how and the way it was done. Again those are different from Kurtz's criticisms.

    Though I have always agreed with him that Lucas had to many yes men around him on the PT.
  15. DRUSSELL622 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2013
    From what I've heard Kurtz is a really nice person and he has a lot of artistic integrity. Why not try and do something different in a blockbuster that many people are already going to see. Film's are intrinsically art and they are a collaborative art, I think unlike a Richard Marquand, Kurtz said no or let's do this differently to Lucas, which is what made the first two films so interesting is they are more than any one person's idea.

    "It was one thing for the New Hollywood filmmakers to take massive risks with a studio's money, another for the filmmakers themselves to risk literally everything they owned - particularly on a film with such a downbeat, inconclusive ending.

    In hindsight, you can say it was well worth it, but at the time..."

    Yes, part of the falling out happened because George was mad that Empire cost so much money too. Kurtz thought it was worth the money they spent to get everything right but George thought he could have made the same amount of money had they not made such a great movie. It sure as hell was worth it because Empire is the glue that holds the original trilogy together and thus the reason why Lucas made so much money in the long run on everything from merchandising to prequels. Much of Jedi's strengths come from merely just wrapping up what Empire started. I think Kurtz is owed much more than he gets credit for. I can't wait to read the making of Jedi coming out next year because it will definitely expand on what happened with Jedi. I read Secret History of Star Wars and these Kurtz interviews were a confirmation of much of that and where I have always personally felt the series should have gone. I really lost part of my obsession with Star Wars with the prequels and I don't have a huge amount of optimism for the next ones unless we get some more focus on what made Empire and aspects of Jedi great which were physical sets, storytelling and character growth.

    I always envisioned myself as Luke or Han playing Star Wars as a kid, the space dogfights and ship battles were cool but they did not resonate with me like the character's actions and personalities did. Kurtz makes a great point, "will the characters ever feel as real as they did in Empire?" Empire Strikes Back is ADULT science fiction. I hate how the prequels faults where used as an excuse "well they're actually for kids not you angry adult fan boys". Adults and kids both liked the original two films and they didn't pander to children. Adults are what kept money and interest to make prequels in the first place and continue to do so. Kids want to be treated like adults anyway they enjoy stuff more when they are a little challenged and a little scared. They don't need comic relief, or cuddly characters to enjoy a movie. I know I didn't! Just as many toys can be sold with a good story as Kurtz points out.

    When I think of how great Jedi could have been had we had some more development of Leia's character as well as Han's. Yeah it was shoehorned in and it would have been awesome to see a gelfling like twin search across the galaxy to reveal the "other" Yoda actually described but Leia is revealed to be Luke's sister is lame not because it's dropped in but because it has no bearing on anything other than being used as a tool to try and convert Luke, she doesn't have much of a reaction. Leia could confront her father as well, she's been shown to be the type of person who would do that up until that point. Why is Luke going at this alone? Han does nothing new he's unfrozen and left with no response to being with Darth Vader's daughter and being a huge part of a rebellion which he formally wanted no part in. The tone of Empire is perfect, the claustrophobic feel of Luke and Vader's battle on Bespin, Dagobah's genuine mystical eeriness, Yoda's spiritual guidance and the scariness of Vader's meditation champed and transmission with the original Emperor are my favorite scenes in the whole trilogy. You look at where the trilogy and subsequent films could have gone. I love Dark Crystal and if Kurtz would have worked on Jedi and given us some of that I think Jedi and the series would have grown instead of just every film feeling like an homage to the very first film. You can not deny that Empire was affective in many ways where Marquand's direction of Jedi was not (Who can you tell? Can you tell Luke?:rolleyes: ). Searching for a memorable scene from a prequel like say Clone Wars is difficult. C3P0's factory adventure? A pointless space car chase? Do kids even like that stuff more than kids in '80 loved Empire? I think we are all hear as adults because of the adultness of the original triology.

    "I don't buy that this is merely Kurtz's wishful thinking.

    With TESB, Lucas, Kasdan and Kershner had laid all the cards out on the table: Vader conspires against the Emperor with the aim of establishing a ruling Skywalking dynasty; subsequently, he's emotionally devastated when his son opts for death. Now what's the logical, organic follow-up to this? That Vader (1) humanized by his spiritual defeat, seeks atonement with Luke by destroying the Emperor or (2) suddenly becomes a helpless slave to the Emperor and needs to be redeemed by his wizened son? It's the former. It makes complete sense.

    Sure, this may only be conjecture, but I'm almost positive Lucas had something close to a firm grasp on Vader's arc throughout the ESB filming, and made this known to Kurtz. Then, like in every other sequel/prequel in the series, he set on taking a wild left-turn. (And in this case, I feel it was to the detriment of the narrative.)"

    I agree and this is the part I am most disappointed with Jedi for it has never made any sense to me that Vader in ESB wants to overthrow the Emperor with Luke and then come Jedi he's just the Emperors puppet? Lazy storytelling. Can you imagine if we got to see Vader's questioning what he believed fleshed out a little more. All we get is an incredibly obvious close up of Vader looking at Palpatine and then his son being shocked. Vader was humbled by Luke's spiritual defeat. I really love that deleted blu ray scene with Luke constructing a new lightsaber and Vader calling him. Let me know what you guys think and what else you would have liked to have seen and where else we could have gone under Kurtz. He did have a larger part in the first two films than he's given credit for, if you read Once Upon a galaxy Journal of Making Empire, it shows Kurtz was co-director and on set all the time where as Lucas was mainly removed from all the groundwork. Kurtz was also no Johnny-come-lately he'd been involved with Lucas since Graffiti. I think it's easy for a lot of us to associate our fond early memories of Jedi and it being what we got as being good enough. The technology had gotten better the budget bigger, with Kurtz and Kershner gone storytelling was sacrificed in place of effects, Jabba's huge palace which I still love was an attempt at a better Cantina scene and the destruction of the 2nd Death Star (the building of which was absent in ESB?) was a way of outdoing the then already "dated" explosion of a ANH...
    Last edited by DRUSSELL622, Feb 14, 2013
  16. Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2009
    star 3
    Last edited by Ord-Mantell70, Feb 14, 2013
  17. Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2009
    star 3
    Yeah, that was the rough plan back then. A few years' break before attacking the first trilogy. A Sci-Fi magazine from 1983 even mentioned that the following film wouldn't probably come out before...1990.

    Probably.

    The general audience was starting to get fade up with Star Wars as soon as ROTJ's release actually, even if that one was still a smash hit. Nonetheless I think the prequels would have been quite successful anyway had they been released in the late 80's or early 90's, simply because of the name Star Wars on it. Though likely not as overwhelming as the OT.

    The real deal to me is how would the prequel story have been changed if released much sooner. Had Lucas already the same general feeling and ideas of what was to be told in the backstory in terms of specifics since the mid 80's ? Would the story have been a little different ? That's the massive what-if in fact.

    Anyway the 15 years wait and gap between the 2 series, along with the mid 90's rennaissance and the SE's release, made a lot to have the OT movies becoming cult classics more and more, thus generating enormous anticipation and buzz for the prequels to come (at least in the US).
  18. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    There's a quote from GL around 1997 in a conversation with Leonard Maltin at a convention where he says that there were a lot of ideas he'd had for the PT which got thrown out. No details about what they were, so it's anyone's guess.
    My own opinion on just what was developed for the PT that was retained was simply what we already knew to begin with by the time the OT ended. A corrupt Senator manipulates his way into becoming Emperor and wipes out the Jedi Knights with the aid of Anakin Skywalker, who turned to the Dark Side of the Force. Anakin and his former master, Obi-Wan Kenobi, duel in a volcanic setting, Anakin is hideously injured and encased in a suit of life-supporting armour, his transformation into Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith complete.

    There's bits & pieces from the early drafts, plus details in private conversations recently revealed, that also made their way into the PT - trader barons up to no good, C-3PO built by a boy in a junkyard, midichlorians etc - beyond that, however, I'd say just about everything else GL came up with in the 1990s. The Rule of Two, Anakin's background as a slave and so on.
    Anakin's wife was most likely always meant to be a person of importance, Boba Fett had some connection to the Clone Wars, but as far as the specifics are concerned, I doubt he'd thought much of it through in any further detail.
  19. StarWarsVerses Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2013
    star 1
    blurgh. gary hurtz.
    lbr789 and Count Yubnub like this.
  20. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4

    I get what you are saying but I disagree with some off it. The Vader scenes where the best in the film and despite the other criticisms of 2nd Death Stars and Ewoks they are what keeps the film high up in people's estimations. It was not simply that Throne scene. In the Endor scenes you have Vader all reflective and how he thinks it's to late for him, before going and grabbing the railing, you can tell it's taken a bit out of him. So it was not simply the flicking of a light switch unlike say RotS. In fact the Kurtz version of Vader suddenly deciding to throw Palpatine into the Lava seems more of the light switch scene tbh.

    While Vader was always a burnt cripple strapped to a giant lung, so he was always going to be a bit of a slave to the Emperor who was basically an evil Yoda. Besides Vader by then had become such an icon I think people do not remember how popular and how much he had taken over Stawars to a certain degree. There is a reason, even today he is still one of the most popular and well regarded characters in film and fictional history.

    Again the criticisms of the prequels is in the execution of the story. People wanted to see the fall of Anakin Skywalker and how a good man goes bad. Instead we got the PT that doesn't even bother to try and match up with the OT at all. It's why the Clone Wars cartoon is actually considered a better prequel than the PT.
    Last edited by fett 4, Feb 15, 2013
  21. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    That had absolutely nothing to do with Gary Kurtz, that was from George Lucas' rough draft of ROTJ. Kurtz wasn't even involved with SW or LFL at that point.
  22. DRUSSELL622 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Clone Wars cartoons are totally better prequels than Menace. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy ROTJ, I enjoy certain things about the prequels. I don't see them as connected to the OT though, its like two unrelated sets of films. Midichlorians vs. Mysticism. I agree far too much time passed between the films to be the same and that's probably almost as much a problem as Lucas taking so much of the PT on himself when he wasn't the sole driving force behind the OT to begin with.

    Watching ANH and looking at scripts up until the last rewrite of ESB it is made clear Vader was never meant to be Luke's father he and Anakin were two separate people up until late '78. ANH operates under Vader as villain and nothing else. Prior to that ESB's early drafts had Anakin's ghost appearing to Luke instead of Obi-Wan. Lucas had a brilliant idea in combining Anakin and Vader and taking the whole story from ANH a great blockbuster to Star Wars trilogy a way of life. The villain being the hero's father? No other sequel had such a revelation before. I'd pay to go back and be to the first theaters in '80 when it was revealed to a fresh audience. People cared because they loved Luke and this character they cared about was being put through emotional torture. From '77 to the SE renaissance Star Wars's appeal was that it was Luke's story not Vader's tragedy.

    Jedi suffers from wrapping things up too soon. ESB was called the next chapter in the continuing Star Wars Saga and was set up to go on for far more than just one more sequel. ESB came out and was successful, giving a guaranteed audience for sequels and money was no longer a worry. Even so if it was family problems, money problems whatever that didn't stop Raiders, Temple and Howard the Duck from being made. Jedi would have been act 6 of Luke's journey with 7, 8 and 9 to quickly follow, leaving a lot of ground for Luke to travel the big galaxy. I could have waited until 9 for a showdown between Luke and the Emperor because Luke's force power would have been awesome to see by that point. Far worst films with far less potential than Star Wars milked it for more than 5 direct sequels. Vader's backstory was known it was where Luke was going that I think all OT fans wanted to see. What could Luke growing in his force power be like, with Hamill young enough to do that justice throughout the 80's into the early 90's. As Hamill said in a OT retrospective news interview, ROTJ ends with Luke just becoming a jedi comparable to James Bond getting his license to kill and the James Bond series stopping at that point. Uncle Luke teaching his nieces and nephews the ways of the force doesn't interest me like jedi Luke's adventures in the galaxy did. It's quite a long shot but maybe one day they'll make a film like Star Wars 5.5-9.0 the alternate universe: Vader joins up with Luke who goes across the galaxy to find his sister and only 80's sci-fi effects and physical sets are allowed to be used. Minimal CGI and limited blue screen. Come on they can afford it just take all that money spent on licensing development and put it back into the actual films. Kids won't miss out if they make one less Darth Maul/Mr. Potato Head or Darth Vader/Transformer toy.
    Last edited by DRUSSELL622, Feb 15, 2013
  23. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Its the version Kurtz wanted though which is the point
  24. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Yes and no, yes your right its like giving Bond his licence but OTOH seeing Luke waste bad guys by the dozen is really only so interesting. Yes achieving level 12 Jedi status by beating bad guy A at point B is good but (for me anyway) is less interesting than character devolpment. For me the best and most interesting thing about RTJ was not Luke beating the bad guy but him saving the bad guy's soul.

    From a character devolpment stage Luke had achieved it all by the end of that film. He'd said no to the Emperor, Redemed his father etc. The only interesting thing would be finding his sister. And character devolpment was always what set Starwars apart from other run of the mill fantasy/sci-fi stories.
    It's no conincidence that most of the EU when started was pretty much the same thing. A Warlord comes along (even a reborn crappy Emperor) who is then beaten. Very shallow stuff in JMO

    Hmm Vaders backstory could have and should have been a great tale. The tragic hero is a classic archtype for a reason. Lucas didn't do himself any favours as for whatever reason he had Anakin written as a bad apple from the start and we did not see any of the major devolpments in his life, with some things even contradicting the OT ie Qui-gon discovering him instead of Obi-wan etc. Which is why the cartoon is far superior than the films in jmo
  25. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    I am sorry, but that is total nonsense.

    Lucas never showed Anakin as a bad egg from the start, in fact it was the exact opposite. He is a kind-hearted boy without a hint of deception or evil in him in TPM. And there are major developments in his life in the PT, and to say there aren't is simply ignoring the facts of the movies. Leaving his mother had a profound effect on him since it further highlights his attachment that will later be his undoing, the death of his mother was also major character development because since that singles the start of him losing his innocences(which he fully loses when he kills the younglings in the temple 3 years later. Hell, even him getting his arm chopped off by Dooku is major development since that is the first step of him losing his humanity.

    I understand not liking the PT, but to think Anakin is a static character totally disregards what actually happens in the movies. Also, Qui-Gon discovering Anakin doesn't contradict anything since Kenobi never said he actually discovered the boy.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn