Achieving Peace in the Middle East

Yeah, and we'll put him to death again, D_M. Such is the nature of man. Hence why I stay out of religion.

And now Israel's being attacked...in Africa?!?

E_S

 

And now Israel's being attacked...in Africa?!?

I dunno about you, but I got a small chuckle out of that statement. Not the deaths, but just the way it's phrased.

 

Yeah, and we'll put him to death again, D_M.

That won't be a possibility, I'm afraid.

BTW there is no "_" between my username hehe

 

I'll just start with a disclaimer stating that I couldn't care less about the Palestinians' current plight. The Arabs had a choice in 1947 and, to put it simply enough, they made the wrong one. Instead of appealing to the General Assembly they declared war over and over again, and that hurts their credibility a lot in my eyes. And then they were kicked out of Jordan. Tough cookie.

But only history majors have the luxury of calling the shots in hindsight, so I'm just speaking in the past tense. Kind of like everyone else in this thread.

Bad blood is something to be forgotten in the aftermath of conflict - trying to assign blame as to "who started it" is useless and counterproductive. Exactly how far back can one go before it gets ridiculous, expecially in this situation? The US? Israel? Britain? The Ottoman Turks? The Latin Kingdom? Byzantium? The Romans? Israel again? The Assyrians?

My quick fix, because it's late and I need food: give Sharon the boot and remove all Jewish settlements from the West Bank. Give the area (and the Gaza Strip) its sovereignty and let its own government deal with the refugees from Lebanon. In addition, have the state of Palestine sealed off from Israel along the West Bank's eastern border with a big fence and customs patrol unit evenly dispersed throught the region. Restrict all visas so no crazy suicide bombers can get in.

As for Arafat, don't kill him - he'd be too much of a martyr for some - but don't be so foolish as to listen to his whining. Just sit back and see how his PA fares against the radicals in his own state.

 

No-one will give a tinker's cuss about the Middle East once their oil reserves dry up. That's the long and the short of it.

 

A window of hope, Amram Mitzna was chosen as the new head of the Labour Party, he proposes to do something about the Settlements, IMO the only road to peace. Maybe he'll be able to beat Sharon for Prime Minister next year, here's hoping.

 

Here here GAP

 

Let's hope GAP ,but lets also hope he doesn't share Yitzhak Rabin's fate and is able to sort something out !!!

 

The Messiah will return, you can count on that.

Prove it.

Maybe he'll be able to beat Sharon for Prime Minister next year, here's hoping.

That would be amazing GAP, but early polls aren't encouraging.

Peace,

V-03

 

Any religion with the concept of a messiah is problematic:

a) anyone can claim to be a messiah
b) he'll get killed
c) someone will start their own sect

---------------------

So instead of going into religion, the mid-east problem needs to be solved realistically, looking at the facts on the ground.

If we go by religion everybody can lay claim to this so-called land of "milk and honey", which really is the land of "bombs and guns".

 

Prove it.

I don't have to, you'll find out on your own.

 

That would be amazing GAP, but early polls aren't encouraging.

I know, but I can always hope can't I? And if he doesn't win now there's always the next elections. Because what he proposes ultimatly has to be done, the settlements have to go, atleast partially if you want any chance for lasting peace.

 

I don't have to, you'll find out on your own.

We've heard that one for two millenia. They were saying it in the year one thousand, and in the year two thousand.

I'm not holding my breath.

GAP-

Agreed....and I'm with you on this one .

Peace,

V-03

 

Can anyone pointme to quotes from Leaders around the world for their reactions to the recent Kenya and Israel terrorist attacks?

I've often said that I am disappointed that, when Israel does something wrong, leaders from Europe and the UN and all over the place get up and have a go at Israel. Yet when someone attacks Israelis, nothing is said.

I have been through a few online media places, but I am yet to see anything from European and UN leaders. Can anyone point me to some links please?

Thanks

 

And they denied it when He came the first time. So, what's the difference? To God a thousand years is a day, and a day is a thousand years. But the next time won't be like the first time.

Anyways, back on topic...

Looks like Ariel Sharon will be reelected.


And I don't think the settlement activity will stop.

 

...And I don't think the settlement activity will stop.

Maybe not now but eventually it will have to because it is the only road to peace.

 

Agree with GAP. Eventually there will be another big push for peace like there was 10 years ago. Hopefully this time it will get somewhere.

It was so close last time; no fair!

Peace,

V-03

 

You want to achieve peace in the mid east? Let's get out!! Let's develop hydrogen fuel cells, build more nuclear power plants, and say good bye to OPEC forever. Let them rot in hell.

America, let's get out before al-qaeda or some other degenerate terrorist group explodes a nuclear bomb in one of our cities and kills millions. Let's not allow it to get that far. Get us out of there as soon as possible.

Write your congressman and senators to support immediate implementation of hydrogen fuel cells and the construction of coal, nuclear, or some other non-oil based fuel source. Do it for your children's lives.

 

America, let's get out before al-qaeda or some other degenerate terrorist group explodes a nuclear bomb in one of our cities and kills millions. Let's not allow it to get that far. Get us out of there as soon as possible.

The destruction of Israel would not alter this goal. Detonating a nuclear weapon is the holy grail of al-Qaeda; it is seen as the one psychological weapon that could precipitate the fall of the US (although I believe it would only generate rage and harden determination).

Al-Qaeda's stated list of demands include:

1) Halt the unfair treatment of muslims worldwide; this includes withdrawing support for all the current middle-eastern islamic regimes so that al-Qaeda can replace them with "true" islamic regimes that properly follow Shar'ia (sp?) law.

2) Withdraw entirely from the middle east, specifically Saudi Arabia; presumably to allow bin Laden to take over the country through terrorism

3) Cease support for Israel, preferably force them to give up to the palestinians in a literal sense; that is, change Israel proper into Palestine

4) Specifically stated in an al-Qaeda communique: America must convert to Islam.

These are the demands that the organization has made as conditions for rescinding the jihad against Americans.

Converting to fuel cells, while certainly a good idea both politically and especially for the environment, won't solve the al-Qaeda problem. Only international co-operation and the peaceful, fair and equitable solving of conflicts in the Middle East will.

Peace,

V-03

 

"Write your congressman and senators to support immediate implementation of hydrogen fuel cells and the construction of coal, nuclear, or some other non-oil based fuel source."


That's not sustainable in the short term. I support increasing research and market-force drivers for renewable fuel sources, but the underpinning of your message is based upon wishful thinking.

 

"Write your congressman and senators to support immediate implementation of hydrogen fuel cells and the construction of coal, nuclear, or some other non-oil based fuel source."

I'm sure that the US government longs for the day when it no longer needs to act in such a sickening manor towards Saudi Arabia because of their oil. The problem is that most renewable fuels are not economicaly viable at present.

 

Bomb 'em





Hey it worked on Japan, Russia, and Germany.




I'm kidding I'm kidding. kinda funny though that Japan has forgotten what we did to them and China has forgotten what we did for them.




personally I can't wait until we can stop pouring money into that region. They will then be in the same situation as Africa.

 

Vaderize03:

If those are the demands of al-Qaida, then they have some problems.

The demand for America to convert to Islam is a biggie. We cannot set up a state religion, nor can anyone be compelled to go to a church he doesn't wish to (or even to go to church). They want the First Amendment repealed.

And their "holy grail" of detonating a nuke is not going to make us see things their way. More likely, we're going to get quite irritated (to put it VERY mildly), and they might find that we will hit back hard ourselves.

There is another option that might not be thought of: We might decide enough is enough, and decide to follow the course we did in 1945 - military occupation and the establishment of liberal democracies in the region. That's what happened the LAST time someone placed the USA in an "us or them" situation.

 

Unilaterally imposing that sort of 'solution' isn't realistic, either.

 

Red-Seven:

As Max Boot argues in The Case for American Empire, you would have been hard-pressed to find anyone in America at the start of our involvement in World War II who could have imagined that within four years, we'd have rolled back German and Japanese aggression and have begun the process of imposing liberal democracy on them.

If al-Qaida or some other groups does such a thing, we may decide we've got little to lose by adopting such a course of action.