Achieving Peace in the Middle East

Hey, they've even spied on the US, Jediflyer.

They don't trust anybody, which is simultaneously pathetic and sad.

Sorry I haven't more directly answered your questions, Ender; I'll get to them this weekend when I have more time.

Peace,

V-03

 

Well the U.S. is powerful Vaderize03.

New Zealand, on the other hand, is only as dangerous as the Shire.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Mossad was actually spying on NZ, but they were there to get doctored NZ passports so they could travel to their real destination under the guise of a "sanitized country."

That was the concern of the PM, that if the Mossad agents actually obtained their passports, and were caught, it would place scrutiny on all travellers from NZ..

 

Ohh, that makes more sense.

 

But yes, V-03 has a point too, Israel has spies everywhere. They are the number one people you do not mess with; because they will find you.

However, Mr44's point is accurate; we and NZ are worried indeed about Israeli agents trying to obtain Australian or New Zealand passports. I feel this is justifiable; because just to the north of us lies the largest Muslim nation in the world who already loathe us because we helped get them out of acountry they illegally annexed in '75. In fact I have no doubt that Mossad was likely trying to get it's agents into SE Asia to watch Islamic movements there.

E_S

 

Why is there a lack of news about this 15yo kid trying to carry out a suicide bombing in Israel?

Its pretty abhorrent, yet I've seen zero media coverage of it, and only this minor after-the-fact article from the BBC.

 

To follow on from the Israeli spy case, some Jewish headstones were smashed and vandalised in a Wellington cemetery today.

Story

The Jewish community see it as a direct response to the PM's hardline against Israel. It just goes to show anti-semitism is a problem even in NZ.

 

Mossad hardly operates in arab countries. They mostly recruit their agents in Europe, Canada, etc. Why? Most arab countries don't have high-level military academies. Their commandos train in Italy or France. Their missiles are built in Europe. To understand Mossad activities read Victor Ostrovsky's "By Way of Deception". It's banned in Israel an in the US.

 

Given the past few decades Ender I'd say Israeli PR is the ultimate contradiction in terms.

JB

 

Victor Ostrovsky's "By Way of Deception".

BTW, you can buy this book in America.

I believe the hardcover is out of print, but OOP is not the same as banned.

 

When this happens(Peace in the Mid East) my uncle can finally come home, he has been in Baghdad for a year already. The cool think is he got to be in the news next to Gen. Tommy Franks, Semper Fi.

 

Dagsy, I don't know why exactly but I certain have suspicions. I think it's because the entire incident looks bad! From what I know, the boy didn't tell his parents because they would have said no, and he did it because he wanted to get out of school. But also, that a 15 year old boy is willing to be killed and used by such a group is obviously not only despicable, but a savage indictment on the entire conflict.

E_S

 

No books are ever banned in the US, Lord_Fett. That is blatantly unconstitutional. Books may become unavailable if the manufacturers cease to carry them, but banned?

Nope, not ever.

Peace,

V-03

 

"To follow on from the Israeli spy case, some Jewish headstones were smashed and vandalised in a Wellington cemetery today.

The Jewish community see it as a direct response to the PM's hardline against Israel. It just goes to show anti-semitism is a problem even in NZ"

Hmm... one incidence of vandalism. It's hardly a wave of anti semetism. The Swastika suggests to me that this was more an opportunistic case. If there was a lot of media noise about another group they hated, they would have targeted them instead.

I was annoyed at the reaction to the vandalism. One reaction anyway. As if we should just ignore what Israel has done to avoid idiot bigots doing stupid things. It's a rather different issue, and should be dealt with as well of course.

 

No-one's suggesting that anybody ignore any side in this conflict, but there has been a rise of anti-jewish action in europe over the past decade, and it has been downplayed in the media compared to Israeli actions.

Why not try and look at all sides of the issue rather than insist this is simply a "cover-up" for what "Israel has done"? Balance tends to lend quite a bit more weight to an argument.

Peace,

V-03

 

New Zealand has place diplomatic sanctions on Israel as a result of this incident...

Opinions?

E_S

 

PM Clark said she would refuse any request for Israel's President Moshe Katsav to visit later this year when he is due to visit Australia.

Well, I guess the worst that could happen is that Israel's President won't be able to visit the site were LOTR was filmed..

It's too bad, because he was such a huge fan..

Otherwise, well, not much.

 

New Zealand has place diplomatic sanctions on Israel as a result of this incident...

Opinions?

It doesn't really mean much for Israel or NZ. We don't even have an Israeli Embassy here (it's in Australia), and we don't have many cultural or economic links.

A BBC report said officials close to the Israeli government said Israel isn't really concerned with the action, they view NZ as a "small and unimportant country". Had a bigger, more influential country imposed sanctions, Israel might have taken more notice.

According the Phil Goff, the Foreign Minister, the men were government agents, he knows that, and apparently the Israeli Foreign Minister "knows how he knows that" (a great play of words by Goff). Whatever that is, who knows.

The bottom line is, to the average NZer, the diplomatic sanctions mean nothing.

 

I would have to agree that they are meaningless.

As long as the US remains so strongly pro-Israel, no-one can really touch them in any way that will truly hurt.

Peace,

V-03

 

Another recent development, Arafat has appointed his brother as security chief in Gaza. This is caused alot of outrage even in Arafat's own party and is being seen being another example of a corrupt government. Also this appointment caused three senior members to tender their resignations including the Prime Minister, none of the resignations were excepted.

Thoughts?

on another note, a recent associated press article has stated that Sharon has encouraged jews in France to leave citing the latest report from the French Interior Ministry. The report shows the number of anti-jewish acts in the first six months of 2004 at 510 compaired to 593, the total of 2003.

 

The bottom line is, to the average NZer, the diplomatic sanctions mean nothing.

In a sense, you have to admire New Zealand for it. Why? Because NZ gives more of a damn about their sovereignity than most. They're not afraid to tell America to bugger off when the US wants to dock nuclear-powered warships in their waters. They happily told France to go to hell and jailed French DGSE agents after the SOBs blew up Rainbow Warrior in an Auckland harbour. Bottom line is, NZ puts NZ first, which is admirable.

Wolf - the PA - corrupt?



E_S

 

Apparently Arafat has reshuffled his cabinet again...

E_S

 

Yeah, and apparently it was because a group of Palestinians attacked and burned one of Arafat's public security buildings in protest.

As a result, he reinstalled the commander he fired back into a position over his cousin.

Imagine that, Palestinians actually protesting Arafat because he "perpetuates a system of corruption and cronyism endemic among the Palestinian leadership."

hmmmm...

 

Question for you Ender-

If it's admirable for NZ to put NZ first, why is it so bad for america to do the same thing? (I'm not asking this is a hostile manner my friend; you know how I feel about the current US leadership -I'm just curious).

Peace,

V-03

 

I guess I didn't phrase it in context.

Simply, New Zealand has so much more to lose by such a position, and the world depends upon America. They risk losing out by being tough on bigger nations or nations with bigger allies; yet they do it anyway. So I guess I admire the fact they can do that, which we nor you guys would do...

E_S