Achieving Peace in the Middle East

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by KnightWriter, Sep 23, 2002.

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  1. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Russia and Israel are also facing the same type of Terrorism together

    Once again, black_saber, you're running around with those newly minted papers which divorce, finally, you and reality.

    Russia's problems are not at all like Israels, no matter how much you wish with all of your heart for it to be.

    They are not the same as America's problems, despite Mr Putin's disingenious and potentially dangerous move to link the Russian and American situations.

    See, the American problem is linked only in part to US foreign policy. The Israel/Palestinian problem is older that anyone living it. The Russian terrorist situation, however, is directly Russia's fault. 100%. Nothing will excuse the actions taken at Beslan, but for you to pretend Russia is on the same page as Israel - i.e. part victim of circumstance, part trouble maker - is just utterly incorrect.

    E_S
  2. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    MemriTV is a really cool site. They post clips that air on different Arab TV stations with captions. I am not sure of what bias they have, but from the front page right now, they seem to be pretty evenhanded.

    Go check them out.

  3. EMRYS_FARSEER Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2001
    star 1
    Vaderize03, I;m sorry but I have to disagree. For the 85% of the muslim population that is non-terrorist, you would be correct. However, we're talking about the 15% extremists. These people simply hate! They don't won't to conquer us, they don't want to subjugate us. They don't want us to understand their cause or be sympathetic. We are an abomination in Allah's creation and it is thir mission from Allah to whipe us from his creation.
  4. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    So has anyone checked out MemriTV yet? I'm tellin' ya, its the place to be!

    KK EDIT: Fixing the link.
  5. Lord_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 4
    People, y'all were:

    [image=http://forumspam.articblue.nl/user_related/owned/images/0694.jpg]

    :D Sorry, had to post this one.

    And I still can't figure out why people say things like "Pawned" and "Owned". What does it mean? :confused:
  6. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    "Owned" usually means taken advantage of, or beat down.

    Peace,

    V-03
  7. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    I am not sure of what bias they have.

    Memri was exposed a few years ago as being primarily funded and set up by Israeli intelligence.
  8. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Pehaps somebody should tell them then...
  9. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    This is upped for continuning discussion on the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians.

    Announced today was another treaty, which is endorsed by both Sharon and Abbas, and supported by now Sec State Rice.

    Holding up the signature British stoicism was Jack Straw who indicated that Britian stands ready to help in any way, but remains skeptical of "too many false dawns."

    Israel will immediately release a substatial amount of political prisoners in a show a good faith, and pull troops out of five towns in the West Bank.

    Abbas indicated that the Palestinians will cease attacks directed at Israel.

    The major hurdle that immediately presented itself was Hamas, which indicated it is not bound by any peace treaty.

    How much influence Abbas has with groups like Hamas still remains to be seen, although he indicated that to confront Hamas now would be to invite a Palestinian civil war.

    What it might do in the long term, however, is to continue to de-legitimize these Islamist groups, amd move the focus to more legitimate outlets.
  10. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    That's going to depend on Israeli patience and international pressure.

    If the terrorist groups refuse to play ball, and Israel shows restraint (which it claims only encourages terrorism by making it look weak), then it will be up to the international community to prove that it does not have an "anti-Israeli bias" by helping to end the terrorism.

    More likely, Israel will simply state that the Palestinian Authority once again has demonstrated that it has none over its' own people, and launch more selected attacks.

    Not a good situation, if you ask me, but one can always hope.

    Peace,

    V-03
  11. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    The situation remains very volatile, one wrong move will undo a month of good work. The real positive steps however are

    1) The deployment of Palestinian security forces in The Gaza Strip in an attempt to prevent attacks against Israel.

    2) The drop in the level of violence with both sides observing a period of calm

    3) The proposed Israeli pull back on The West Bank.

    4) Sharon's disengagement from Gaza is no longer a unilateral move.


    I have to say that Sharon played a blinder by playing hardball with Abbas from the moment he was elected PA President. He made it clear that Abbas had to do something to stop the attacks of Hamas, IJ, etc and that is why we have seen progress.

    What it might do in the long term, however, is to continue to de-legitimize these Islamist groups, amd move the focus to more legitimate outlets.

    The problem is that Hamas have more authority than ever. At recent local elections in Gaza they romped to victory taking 7 out of 10 councils, shattering Fatah's stranglehold on Palestinian politics. The only plus is that maybe as they become more invloved in mainstream politics they will be forced to take less extremist positions.
  12. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    The problem is that Hamas have more authority than ever. At recent local elections in Gaza they romped to victory taking 7 out of 10 councils, shattering Fatah's stranglehold on Palestinian politics. The only plus is that maybe as they become more invloved in mainstream politics they will be forced to take less extremist positions.

    Right, this was the idea that I hope could be explored.

    It makes sense for Hamas to garner more local support as the situation becomes more despirate.

    Internationally, the focus is going to have to change, or the situation will never improve. (rather the idea that V03 illustrated above)

  13. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Have you guys heard that Abbas fired some of his top officials for violating the ceasefire? Maybe he'll be able to bring the militant groups under control. He seems like he actually wants peace.

    http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1108033866387&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154
  14. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Yeah, Abbas ordered his security forces to shoot militants with weapons on sight.

    I wonder if they'll actually do it....

    Peace,

    V-03
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    So much has happened since this thread started over two years ago, and there are still a great many uncertainties.

    Hopefully, we're at least a little closer to achieving peace in the middle east.
  16. RadagastTheBrown Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 3
    I am Palestinian, and I'm really hoping this treaty will work. It is just these extremist terrorists that prevent anything good from happening. I am glad Abbas doesnt have anything to do with them.
  17. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    I think that everyone apart from a few idiots on either side will agree that Abu Mazen has made a very promising start as PA leader and that Ariel Sharon is acting in a fairly reasonable manor.

    If the militants can be contained and slowly moved towards the mainstream and if disengagement from Gaza can be achieved in a fairly peaceful manor (alongside withrawal from West Bank towns) then there is some hope that a level of trust can be achieved to make serious final solution negotiations possible. Real peace is along way off, but the journey towards it has begun.
  18. DarthArsenal6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2001
    star 5
    I hope so too that the peace process go forward
    AND GOING FORWARD WITHOUT BEING BIAS TO ANY OTHER SIDE !

    This WAR has taken its tole far too long and both side suffered considerably.

    Its about time the Arab Nation accepts Isreal and Its about time Isreal Accepets the Arab cuture in terms of intergration.
  19. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    Its about time the Arab Nation accepts Isreal and Its about time Isreal Accepets the Arab cuture in terms of intergration.

    I'm curious as too what the later half of that sentance means?
  20. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Perhaps it's a reference to the refugee problem?

    Peace,

    V-03
  21. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Yeah, you said it DK.

    E_S
  22. DarthArsenal6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2001
    star 5
    Allowing Palistiens to live side by side ? No ?
    Ok :(
  23. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    Allowing Palistiens to live side by side ?

    Thats alright then. The word intergration had me worried. I thought that you might have been suggesting something that would have compromised the Jewish nature of the state of Israel which is a non-negotiable position for the Israelis.
  24. DarthArsenal6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2001
    star 5
    ^

    No no no , there is nothing what the Arabs can do to get the jews out , and its totally wrong , like i have mentioned before some time ago. The forth generation have started to settle and to them its their home

    The best solution is to have Jews, Muslim, Christains and other religion, to have them live side by side and understand each other. I can only hope that this spreads through out the Middleast.

    Driving the Jews out of Isreals will simply put us all back to squrare one as well as going into Palistien terrortry (as well as other Arab nations ie the US on Iraq) and destroying thier homes.

    If the people of Isreal and Palistien, who have encounted so much suffering, done by either side militant power hungers, can forget thier differences i think its high time for all to do the same.







  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Been away a while, courtesy of Spyware delivering viruses to the system, but not much activity here it seems.

    Anyone see the article in the Guardian a few weeks by, I think, David Grossman? It was considering the potential effects of a mutual recognition of responsibility for harm by both Israeli and Palestinian leaders, that by doing so each side would go beyond the role of victim.

    Very balanced, well-argued and worth a look. If I can find it, I'll post a link.

    JB
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