Actualización del Mod Squad - el 12 de Mayo de 2004

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Kimball_Kinnison, May 12, 2004.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Sorry dp4m "Users are not allowed to say things which may be construed as modding" is niether an old rule nor a basic rule. It had nothing to do with Comm until Gandolfy decided to bring it up. You might as well have him warning people for saying the EU is absolute canon in violation of CT forum rules.
  2. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Sorry dp4m "Users are not allowed to say things which may be construed as modding" is niether an old rule nor a basic rule. It had nothing to do with Comm until Gandolfy decided to bring it up. You might as well have him warning people for saying the EU is absolute canon in violation of CT forum rules.

    Users acting as mods had always been frowned upon, ever since I was a n00b (and I still am to some of you). And I don't think Randolf mentioned it above in his "Basic Moderating" point which is what you were responding to.

    And, to be fair, the EU was never "absolute canon." ;)
  3. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    No I'm expanding the discussion of his tactics in getting rid of DA. Namely, baiting and threatneing DA by saying he should have been banned and bringing in JCC rules to pad a laundry list of warnings.

    Since Raven is indeed a comms mod does that mean "acting like a mod" is no longer allowed here and why isn't a mod telling a member they should have been banned baiting since it would be if any other member said so.

    And I'm still confused as to why he was snotty towards Blaine for having to do his job for him.
  4. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Sorry dp4m "Users are not allowed to say things which may be construed as modding" is niether an old rule nor a basic rule. It had nothing to do with Comm until Gandolfy decided to bring it up. You might as well have him warning people for saying the EU is absolute canon in violation of CT forum rules.

    Users have been banned for saying that EU is absolute canon in CT. Or at least one user has been...


    Could you also explain why a mod saying to a user they should have been banned a long time ago is not baiting, threatening, harassing, or whatever else.

    I was giving my opinion on an event as a moderator. Are you suggesting that moderators should not disagree with each other or offer their opinions on events in public?


    Blaine was doing the right thing, which many of you other mods don't care about in your desire to get rid of an annoying user. Especially in light of the tightened Comm rules you trot out whenever you feel the need to be uptight. You should probably be ashamed it took someone who barely visits comm to show you how your job ought to be done, but more likely you'll just demand she not leave New users.

    Which is strange because despite the number of new users there, there are hardly any problems with that forum. You'd think you'd recognize sucess when you saw it.


    On the contrary, of all the recent moderator promotions, I think that she's the best new moderator so far. I disagreed with her on that issue, and we discussed it via PM, but I very much hope that she will spend more time in Communications.


    And I'm still confused as to why he was snotty towards Blaine for having to do his job for him.

    I don't think that I've been snotty towards Blaine. I disagreed with one descision she made. Was Dagsy being snotty towards me earlier in this thread? Are you being snotty towards me now? Or are you again suggesting that moderators should not disagree in public?
  5. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Well then Raven perhaps you can explain why you think making a personal comment is justifiable even in retaliation.

    I'm sure that will be an educational experience.

    To simplyfy the remarks Relpying to "People who post in 3sa are idiots" with "I guess that's why you post there" violates those strict rules you claim to enforce. Choosing to ignore it just because you dislike the person who amde the initial comment is wrong. Well done blaine for the warning, even moreso for correctly identifying the offense since that isn't something the MS bothers to do much.

    And Raven you obviously missed my point, you took DA to task for acting like a Mod in Comm, in violation of JCC rules. This would be similar to taking someone to task for saying the EU is canon in Comm, in violation of CT rules.

    Got it?
  6. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    To simplyfy the remarks Relpying to "People who post in 3sa are idiots" with "I guess that's why you post there" violates those strict rules you claim to enforce. Choosing to ignore it just because you dislike the person who amde the initial comment is wrong. Well done blaine for the warning, even moreso for correctly identifying the offense since that isn't something the MS bothers to do much.

    I disagree. I believe that the offense was on the first comment, not the second. The second can only be considered remotely offensive in conjunction with the first. Choosing to ignore that because you dislike the administration is wrong.



    And Raven you obviously missed my point, you took DA to task for acting like a Mod in Comm, in violation of JCC rules. This would be similar to taking someone to task for saying the EU is canon in Comm, in violation of CT rules.

    That was one of the things that I took him to task for, and it's still baiting. If in a discussion in Communications someone were to state that the EU is canon or is not canon, that could be taken as baiting as well depending on the context.
  7. FamousAmos VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 6
    I disagree. I believe that the offense was on the first comment, not the second. The second can only be considered remotely offensive in conjunction with the first.

    I disagree. If someone calls you stupid, its a flame, right? Is calling someone stupid back not a flame, then? It seems to me that if the first comment can be considered a flame, the second comment must also be considered a flame.

    Choosing to ignore that because you dislike the administration is wrong.

    But choosing to ignore it because you dislike a particular user isn't wrong?

  8. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    <cough> crap <cough>

    Every single member and mod ehre knows that that simply because you respond to an attack with an attack doens't let you off. Go on ask anyone. A warning is fully justified because that what they're bloody well there for, to wanr people when they're pushing the bloody envelope. Come on Raven you're an admin, only tech I realize but you should know the rules better then that. You accuse me of starting this because I dislike the mods? That pig won't fly since what I'm doing is saying a mod was right for handing out a warning. I suppose now it's because I llike blaine more then you?

    Blaine was right, you're wrong. It happens even to admins.

    Furthermore, you can try and justify it now by saying "Acting like a mod is baiting" but frankly that has never been a hard and fast rule and what you decided to refer to instead was the JCC ruling banning all pretend moddings. Honestly, DA gave you more then enough to justify a ban without trying to pad the list. I suggest in the future you realize using weak pretenses to run up the score just to sate your vindictiveness, no matter how well justified, is niether worthwhile nor correct.
  9. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    I disagree. If someone calls you stupid, its a flame, right? Is calling someone stupid back not a flame, then? It seems to me that if the first comment can be considered a flame, the second comment must also be considered a flame.

    The second comment was only pointing out that the first comment could also apply to DA - it's not a flame.



    But choosing to ignore it because you dislike a particular user isn't wrong?

    It is wrong if it's ignored because a particular user is disliked. That wasn't the reason I ignored it.




    Blaine was right, you're wrong. It happens even to admins.

    I disagree. Just because you agree with the initial verdict doesn't mean that you're right, any more than being an admin means that I'm automatically right.


    Honestly, DA gave you more then enough to justify a ban without trying to pad the list.

    What would you have banned him for?
  10. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Now raven honestly, threatening to ban me just because I'm continually pointing out your specious arguements?

    If you want to argue that saying "that's an odd thing to say for someone who posts there frequently" is acceptable fine. But that is only paraphrasing what was said. What mebe actually said was that if everyone there was under 18 and had an IQ under 12, it explained why DA was still there. The first is pointing out the logical flaw, the second is an attack on the user.


    Since you appear to be of the opinion I'm just a mod hating bastard out to destroy the administration, lets go find an ex Comm mod who can give their opinion. Maybe KW can be convinced to do so privately since he's generally unwilling to smack mods down publically.

    What would I have banned DA for? His initial comment deserved atleast a warning under the rules, his conduct following would have merited a ban given the history and given the supposedly exacting nature of moderation in Comm.
  11. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "since he's generally unwilling to smack mods down publically."

    That's an odd thing to say for someone who can't understand why Mods "appear to be of the opinion [you're] just a mod hating bastard out to destroy the administration,"

    Is that better? :)
  12. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Please don't make crass overgeneralizations about mods, not all mods think I'm a mod-hating bastard, just the mods who think I am a mod-hating bastard think I'm a mod-hating bastard, the rest know I'm not a bastard.
  13. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Please don't make crass overgeneralizations about mods"

    Does that mean your statement towards Raven was crass as well? In that case, it would also appear that it was specifically targeted.

    BTW, would you approve of this response?

    "That's an odd thing to say for someone who can't understand why Raven would "appear to be of the opinion [you're] just a mod hating bastard out to destroy the administration,"

    ...or did you want to continue talking around the real issue? I was under the impression you were a "get to the meat of the issue" kinda guy.
  14. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Mebe I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. I don't think you've found a good rejoiner and are just reusing it, so could you please explain your point?

    Mebe In the future it might better to be able to recognize sarcasm and satire even when it isn't smacking you in the face with smilies.
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Oh, farraday. Why must you make people explain the uncomfortable truth of your statements to you? You never seem to have a problem smack....oh, sorry, explaining such issues to other people.




    Oops, almost forgot....[/sarcasm][/satire]
  16. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Honestly mebe all this because a mod gave you a warning?

    Raven accused me of hating all the mods, mostly it seems because I said he was wrong. The fcat I said he was wrong about devaluing another mod is apparently immaterial. However I know Gandy respects KW atleast, so I'm fairly certain if KW said much the same thing I did(put in a KW's own manner of course) Raven might just listen to him.

    I am sad though that Raven so quickly and easily fell into "OMG farraday hates teh mods!" as soon as his decision is questioned.
  17. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Honestly mebe all this because a mod gave you a warning?"

    It's very odd that you would accuse me of making a big deal out of a rather small issue.

    Maybe I'm just missing the sarcasm and satire again? It would appear that I have as much trouble reading such in your posts as you did in my original retort to DA.

    Is this a coincidence, or is this whole issue really as big a deal as you claim it to be? You don't appear to be giving forthright answers when difficult questions are asked of you. Why is that?
  18. FamousAmos VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 6
    The second comment was only pointing out that the first comment could also apply to DA - it's not a flame.

    Couldn't DA's first comment simply be pointing out the general lack of intelligence among the posters in 3SA? My point is, if DA's comment is considered a flame, so should MeBeJedi's, because they mean the same thing.


    It is wrong if it's ignored because a particular user is disliked. That wasn't the reason I ignored it.

    Then why did you ignore it? The only reason I ask is because reading through the posts in this thread, its obvious that there's no love lost between you and DA.

  19. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Then why did you ignore it? The only reason I ask is because reading through the posts in this thread, its obvious that there's no love lost between you and DA.

    I ignored it because I don't consider it a flame.

    And yes, it's obvious that there's no love lost between DA and myself, and I think that that is what is making this a sensitive issue, as it calls into question my neutrality and impartiality on the matter. There?s a question of cause and effect here: did Raven interpret DA?s posts in a given way due to Raven?s views on DA, or did DA?s posts influence Raven to take a certain view on DA? Which came first, the opinion or the posts? I believe that I formed my opinion of DA due to his posts, rather than the other way around.

    Earlier in this thread, DA asked why I seemed to be the only moderator picking on him. Here?s the reverse question: why is it that I only seem to pick on DA? There are a number of users who?ve expressed disdain for moderator decisions in this thread alone, let alone the other threads in Communications. If I am the vindictive type who bans and censors for fun and pleasure, why is it only DA that I?m vindictive towards?

    Cause and effect, chicken and egg, and all that fun stuff. I?m of the belief that I treat DA as I do based on what he says in each individual post. I try to treat everyone as individuals who are fully capable of change, and I try not to hold grudges. If DA comes back and refrains from baiting, I have absolutely no problem with him. If he continues to bait, I have a problem with him so long as he continues in said fashion.
  20. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Raven I have yet to see you correct yourself for inappropriiately applying JCC rules to Comm and I am still at a loss as to why you're denouncing a warning given to someone for retaliating after being baited.


    Honestly I wasn't aware "he started it" was an acceptable defense in comm. mebe's post is quite clearly a insulting personal comment. That DA did it first or that he had it comming is immaterial and everyone knows it. Why is it you're bending the rules when action taken against DA is not less justified just because his target did something foolish too.
  21. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Raven I have yet to see you correct yourself for inappropriiately applying JCC rules to Comm and I am still at a loss as to why you're denouncing a warning given to someone for retaliating after being baited.

    I?ve yet to be convinced that I was in the wrong for appropriately recognizing that someone was baiting someone else and why I shouldn?t give my opinion on a retort that was acceptable to a flame that was not acceptable.
  22. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Because raven you're saying it's okay to respond in kind, which is the exact oppisite of what has always been policy and common sense.

    Unless you've initated a moderating change(along with the JCC rules are now applicable to Comms), then mebe fully deserved his warning. He may feel it's unfair because he wa sonly responding and I can sympathise but realistically it doesn't excuse his comment.

    Furthermore, I find it shameful that you said you'd have banned DA, but since another mod took care of the situation already you'd defer to their judgement, then turn around and undercut a mod on a mere warning.
  23. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Because raven you're saying it's okay to respond in kind, which is the exact oppisite of what has always been policy and common sense.

    I have not said that it's OK to respond in kind. MeBeJedi did not respond in kind.




    Furthermore, I find it shameful that you said you'd have banned DA, but since another mod took care of the situation already you'd defer to their judgement, then turn around and undercut a mod on a mere warning.

    Once again I ask you, do you think that moderators should or should not disagree with each other in public?



    Finally, just so we're clear: DA was not banned for remarks said in the 3SA thread. It was his baiting in this thread that got him banned. I have not reversed the decisions of moderators in the other thread, though I have said that I believe that they were wrong.
  24. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    That isn't it gandolf and you know it. It's one thing to say I probably would have banend you for that, it's another thing to say that a freaking warning for a personal comment was too much.

    And once again you're failing to acknowledge a retort can be a personal attack.

    Example : Person 1:you're an idiot
    Person 2: Takes one to know one.

    Just because they were retorting doens't mean they don't deserve a warning. And frankly despite mebe's fake smilie he's still responsible for saying DA has an IQ of less then 12.
  25. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Wow, now I wish I didn't wonder why a relatively empty modsquad update got to five pages.
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