ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VII

This actually makes a tremendous amount of sense. I think it was Driver that said the movie was partially about people who didn't feel loved enough, so this seems like a good rationale for him to turn the Dark Side in his anger and dejection. If Ren was presumed dead in the attack (Han and Leia didn't know he did it), this could also have lead to them splitting up, since they apparently aren't on good terms in the film.

 

Yeah. Driver's comment about Star Wars themes of parents, siblings, not feeling loved enough....suddenly makes sense. I always had a problem with it, because, if Han and Leia were his parents, regardless of how much his parents worked or were away, any child of theirs would know how much they loved them. BUT.....if he's taken at a young age by a Sith or evil persona, they could influence him and turn him against his parents.

 

Uh, sometimes good people are not perfect parents?

 

I agree, and I think regardless of the Academy scenario there's a good possibility Leia's devotion to the Rebellion/Han's devotion to scoundrelling might prevent them from being A+ parents. That said, if Uber is able to convince Ren that his parents just gave him up to uncle Luke, because they didn't love him and wanted nothing to do with him, and perhaps Luke held him at arm's length because he sensed in Ren the qualities of anger and lust for power that Anakin possessed, then it would be even easy to turn him and convince him to betray the Jedi and his family. That he felt abandoned and kept at arm's length is more compelling than just "I hate you guys because you were too busy to play catch with me on weekends."

 

It's a good bet Han didn't have a father around. He'd have to be pretty amazing to nail parenting on the first go with that kind of background. Then you have Leia, who was something of an overachiever being a galactic senator in her teens. Probably not the best mix.

 

The last shot of the film is Rey giving the saber to Luke.

 

If that's true then this will be the first SW film not to have the final shot staged like a group/family photo.

 

Not really, both AOTC and ROTS had more intimate endings.

 

Yeah, I get that. But, from what MSW has said, Kylo seems to harbor a real hatred for Han. That's more than not just being a "perfect parent." It has to be deeper than that.

And I completely agree PymParticles

 

Does it though? I think most psychologists and therapists would say that what really matters is how the individual reacts to a perceived slight or rejection. So Han wouldn't necessarily need to have done something terrible to Kylo for Kylo to develop a hatred for him.

A likely possibility in my view would be something similar to what we see in the recent film American Sniper. The hero was so obsessed with doing his duty that at first he's basically an absent father. This is a person who's hurting one group for noble reasons. How that hurt group reacts to that is based on their psychology, which is related to biology.

For example, Kylo might be quick to anger like Anakin and blame Han for not being around. Although Han is doing what he thinks is noble and necessary: making the galaxy safe for his son.

Or it might be a case of Han trying to be good father and telling Kylo No you can't be a Jedi. Kylo might hate him for this although Han is trying to protect his son.

So, yes, it's perfectly possible for children to hate their parents although their parents are good people.

 

Also, for Kylo to be Han`s son, (and considering Driver`s age) he has to be born around or after ROTJ. It wouldn`t be possible for him to attack the accademy of young Luke, unless he did it as a toddler.

 

Last shot of Kylo, I meant.

 

Last shot of Kylo will have something to do with the vader mask...

Like this concept art ^

 

So what does he end up calling himself then?
Vader Junior?

 

iVader 5s.

 

Which is partly why I believe it will be the best ending across all seven films. But that's not saying too much. Star Wars is not known for great endings...

 

I don't necessarily agree with that. Few endings can match the cathartic joy of the first Star Wars movie's closing shots. ROTJ, ROTS, and TPM's endings are less than stellar but the others are great (including AOTC). And you've gotta love the segue into the end credits music. Gives me chills every time (except for ROTJ, ROTS, and TPM).

 

I like ESB's ending, and can't help but love the silent celebratory ending of ANH. I just don't think that they are either film's strongest suit. With TFA, I have a feeling the ending will be flat out great.

 

Kylo Ren: I do not have conflict as Darth Vader.

 

I'm not sure if Kylo is the one who actually attacked Luke at the academy. Kylo shows up later in the vision I believe...

 

I thought he spared Rey. Of course, he is basically an inside man so he might not have showed up with the rest of the attackers

 

Doesn't he spare her during the clan massacre? So it's both times or just once? It's not clear to me.

 

I agree. Come what may with the rest of this movie, the ending to me sounds like it could be the best one yet (for me anyway...).

 

If you go the Hammil thread: I broke it down. Its unclear if Kylo even spared or she is a passive POV in the vision. The Clan I believe refers to the family of a wealthy businessman who bought the saber. If Rey is actually reliving the events of the event: she may not be Han/Leia's kid.

The sword may be relevant to Rey because she has been personally destroyed by it. If Han and Leia's kid: I think she is just witnessing the massacre passively. Kylo Ren approaching her foreshadowing her connection to her brother.

This is, of course, if Jason got it right sequentially. Not sure if he did. He said it was confusing to piece together....

 

How old do we think Kylo is in this supposed flashback? It's not like Adam Driver is that much older than Daisy Ridley....this whole flashback is so confusing.