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Discussion Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Ben-Solo, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. sheri1967

    sheri1967 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2006
    I was so looking forward to the next generation of Skywalkers when they announced vii. Do you see any way Ben will survive ix? I think they might just kill him off as being a bad seed. I hope I am wrong though. Driver would have so nailed the character of Ben which would have been interesting to see-a cross between Han and Leia’s personalities.

    Do you think that the students Ben took with him, the night he destroyed the Temple, could have been the youngest? This would be in contrast to Anakin killing the younglings.
     
  2. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I could see that being the case but I hope it's something more interesting than that.

    That said it seems like they're trying to show how Rey, despite having a harder life and basically no family grew up to be a good person while conversely, Ben who came from a loving family ended up falling to the dark side.

    I forget who said it but somebody made the comment that they're versions of what each of them could have been. Rey having a hard life could've turned evil but she didn't. Ben having a loving powerful big hearted family should've been good but turned evil.

    I like that idea but I'd rather learn that there was some tragic even event in Ben's life that severally impacted his outlook on life which then lead him down the dark path. That's way more interesting to me than, "my mom and dad were busy and I was stressed about filling their shoes because they were legends".
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  3. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    I really dont think Kylo will die.

    If they kill off the last Skywalker/Solo as a bad seed, it would mean that the skywalker family is a curse on the galaxy and fans were wrong in investing for years in this family.

    Beside, Kylo is the most popular new character and sells.
    Disney is not going to kill its cash cow.
    Killing Kylo is a bad move for business.

    SO MANY people want him redeemed.
    So i think he will live.


    I think after Kylo brought down the hut on Luke and himself, he told the students what Luke did.
    some believed him, others didnt.
    So a fight broke out b/w them.
    Half died, the rest followd Kylo and became KOR.

    Anyway, i dont think they were kids.
    Kylo wasnt a kid, so i am assuming the rest of the students werent either.
     
    sheri1967 likes this.
  4. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    If half of Luke’s students were willing to kill the other half over something Ben said then those students that sided with Ben must have been going down the dark side for a good long while. There’s no way they were good people up to the moment Ben was all “OMG Luke tried to kill me!”
     
  5. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    Or they trusted Kylo when he told them that Luke actually pulled a lightsaber on him while he was sleeping.

    Why is it so hard to believe that Kylo had friends and they trusted him and followed him?

    Maybe they liked Kylo better than Luke.

    It has nothing to do with them not being good people just bcoz they werent on Luke's side.

    By the way, Luke DID try to kill Kylo in his sleep, Kylo wasnt lying.
    But at the end changed his mind, which Kylo didnt know bcoz he was busy defending himself.
     
  6. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Why is it hard to believe? Because good people don’t kill their classmates because of something their friend tells them. The idea that they’re all “well Ben’s my boy and I’ll kill anybody that doubts him” is nuts!
     
  7. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Man, I'd be heartbroken too and go crazy if Mark Hamill stood over my bed while contemplating killing me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  8. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    I didnt mean that.

    I meant some believed Kylo, some didnt.
    Then a fight broke out b/w them, they fought and killed others.

    Its not killing your classmates bcoz Kylo said so.

    Its differing philosophy and beliefs and then fighting for what they believed in.
     
  9. TheEvilQueen

    TheEvilQueen Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2018
    What exactly went down is up for speculation, but it definitely could have went down that some of the students confronted Kylo once he brought the hut down on Luke, and others believed him and came to his defense, and that's how it got started.

    A fight breaking out makes sense, because the other students could've been woken up to the hut imploding or Luke calling out to Ben to stop.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    Valency Jane, Star war and themoth like this.
  10. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Given that Luke seems to have been following the traditional, old Jedi rules and teaching methods, the same ones that led to Anakin's downfall, I can imagine there already being issues between Luke and other students entirely independent of Ben.

    It could very well be that children brought to Luke's temple to essentially live a monastic life at a time they would have no ability to consent to celibacy in full knowledge grew resentful as teens and young adults if Luke's reaction to Rey and Ben's intimacy is any indication. That rule could very easily have caused strife amongst other students for entirely unrelated reasons. What we do know is that Ben was not the only student to turn that night, which suggests the students were probably already on edge even before the mayhem. Half the students did not give Luke the benefit of the doubt.

    It is not necessarily even known if it was as simple as Ben telling the group that his uncle just tried to kill him in his sleep. Half the students believed him and/or possibly also had reason(s) to side against Luke even beyond Ben's story.

    In Ben's case, the flaw in the teaching was Luke telling someone born with equal parts Light and Dark to reject half of who they were, which comes across as being told you were born wrong. Luke was explicitly not teaching balance to his students. Luke still didn't change course in his teaching even when he reacted the same way to Rey. We saw Luke react in fear and rejection when Rey showed she was Gray, just like Ben.

    This is where the Aftermath rumors of Ben as a born-monster come in. Add to this, Ben has Snoke in his mind since before he was born (indeed, it started when he was in Leia's womb), making sure that the balance was tipped. I'd imagine Snoke did it very simply by suggesting how everyone sees him as a monster, distrusts him and fears him to feed that insecurity. Luke's actions, after Leia's decision (which one can surmise Ben felt was because his own family saw him as a monster and he was shipped off to Luke to somehow fix him) and learning that his whole family had been knowingly lying to him his entire life about his heritage (Bloodline), only reinforced that fear that his own family rejected him out of fear.

    Another interesting thing is how Luke refers to Ben as his student, not his nephew or family. If Luke was trying to separate himself from accusations of nepotism amongst other students (especially if Ben was especially gifted in comparison to the rest), it may have had the opposite effect of making Ben feel family rejection instead; as if Luke were constantly disowning him long before that night. The nepotism charge could very well have also added to the troubled atmosphere with the other students.

    I don't believe Ben was responsible for the discord at the temple with the other students. It would be more believable if it were a lot of things boiling over that would cause half of them to crack. If they all had personal reasons separate from believing Ben's story about Luke standing over him with a lightsaber.

    It's very possibly, even likely, that Ben was fighting off Snoke's suggestions that his blood family would ever betray him in that way, only for it to happen. We know that Ben was indeed fighting off Snoke since before he was born and it was a series of betrayals that ended in what truly did look like a murder attempt to shatter his faith in the unconditional love of family. Luke very well might have tried to tell him of saving Anakin when that cat was let out of the bag, so that would make the betrayal feel even worse. The man who saved mass-murderer Darth Vader didn't afford his own nephew the same compassion before said nephew had even done anything at all. It also would have shattered Ben's faith in Luke's perfect hero Wonder Boy reputation. He may have still been hanging onto that belief in his uncle despite what Snoke was feeding him, which would make the betrayal even worse.

    It might also be that the Force, wanting to be balanced, needed an equal number of Dark Siders and Light Siders. If that's the case, Luke teaching all of his Gray students to reject the natural Dark in all of them would cause half to tilt in the other direction rather than find balance in the Gray. The fact that exactly six students sided with Ben and six students sided with Luke would suggest the Force meddled in correcting the balance. When Ben began to tilt towards the Dark, Rey was born in equal power to balance him. This also suggests that Ben was ten years old (which might give us our timeline on when he was sent off to Luke) when his Dark Side started to assert itself, as that's how old he was when Rey was born to counteract it. Half of Luke's students fell to balance the other half.

    Also, if Ben had really been with Luke for around thirteen years of his life since late childhood, he really may have felt abandoned by his parents, depending on how often he ever saw them. That would be legitimately hard to deal with, especially if your uncle refuses to treat you as family instead of a student, even if done because of nepotism fears with other students.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    milena likes this.
  11. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Another interesting thing I just read over on Tumblr...

    What about the impact of other students learning of the Bloodline revelation? If they have access to the media, they suddenly learn that Vader's son is their teacher and Vader's grandson is a fellow student. This was a secret even to Ben. Luke would have a potentially massive problem on his hands, where he not only has to deal with Ben's family betrayal, but possible anger from twelve other students. Vader is the universal bogeyman and some of the students might have personal family hatred, even if they were too young to have lived during that period.

    As we saw with Leia, fellow members of the Rebellion and her political allies she once saw as friends completely abandoned her overnight. Han just intimidated everyone so they didn't bring it up twice. Even Luke's story aboard the Death Star II is questioned as unreliable, given his parentage. While Luke does appear to have retained some hero worship in the galaxy (seen with the Canto Bight children), we see in Bloodline that some even question that.

    Yet another potential way that fallout might have happened on the night of the Jedi temple burning. Some distrustful students may have been quite ready to believe that a lightsaber-wielding Luke standing over his sleeping nephew was living up to being Vader's son. After all, Luke not only lied to Ben (along with Han and Leia), he lied to all of his students. Then again, these students may have distrusted both Luke and Ben entirely and there'd be three possible camps taking sides in the chaos.

    Luke himself didn't actually see anything that went down, given that he was under a collapsed hut. He has missing information on the specifics of the night, only assuming that Ben killed all the students, except the very existence of the six Knights of Ren already makes his version of events questionable. Ben and R2-D2 might be better witnesses for the complete picture of what actually went down amongst the actual students after the hut goes down on Luke.

     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  12. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Nah he's gone through too much character development it'll be a waste to just kill him off.
     
  13. ArchonJedi

    ArchonJedi Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    He should be left in a state of unknown. He has enough of a following to keep them checking everyday for the next Skywalker film. They won't kill him, He is Princess Leia's avatar.. They need to put his mask back on though, the girls got to swoon. Now, it's time to mount up. Release the KyloRen. (Qui-Gon voice)
     
  14. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Co-Purveyor of ST Trivia star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2001
    I’m sorry, I didn’t realize there was just a little intermission in the Star Wars universe for “girls to swoon.”
     
  15. Classified8

    Classified8 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2016
    So when the mask is on the boys swoon? Would you like some smelling salts?
     
  16. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 29, 2016
    In the real world, I think Ben shouldn't be redeemed, but in the saga, I think he will end up being so. He as well as Poe and Luke, (I mean the actors) stood out in their performances and I find Kylo intriguing. I hope he goes down the dark side some more and earn his place as the head of the FO. That said, he may be redeemed, but will not survive. I just hope they give the Skywalker Saga some positive closure. Don't allow the OT characters to "die" in vain. Right now, he's the one I find more interesting in terms of the path they'll take with him moving forward.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    NileQT87 likes this.
  17. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    What would make Kylo turn to the light side? People have said Leia’s death but I think that would drive him further to the dark side even if Hux is responsible for Leia’s death.

    I’m guessing we’ll have to learn more about why Kylo fell to the dark side before we can guess how and why he’d turn back to the light side.
     
  18. Classified8

    Classified8 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2016
    According to some people, Rey in a mask would make him swoon.
     
    Star war likes this.
  19. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    That's not too different than what I'm saying. In both my and your example some of Luke's students believed Kylo and because they believed him they helped Kylo kill the students that didn't believe Kylo. That only works if the students that joined Kylo were already going down the dark path.

    Otherwise we're supposed to believe that all of Luke's students were good people who were devoted to Luke but then Kylo provided such a convincing argument that some of them not only believed Kylo but instantly became so passionately attached to this idea that they murdered their classmates who disagreed. And all of this happened in one night! What?
     
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  20. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Co-Purveyor of ST Trivia star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2001
    It also makes me wonder if some of Luke's students were more corrupted by Snoke than Ben. What if there was a bigger long game, and they rose up with this and took ben with them, not the other way around?

    Doubt JJ will go in this direction. Either way, it's interesting to think that these students were Ben's allies and friends.
     
  21. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    That's what I've been thinking for a while now too. Snoke got to some of the other students first, showed them a few cool tricks and then turned his attention to Ben and basically said, "Ben wouldn't you like to learn the cool things I've taught your classmates? Stick with me and I'll give you the power to become their leader."
     
  22. Rylo_Ken

    Rylo_Ken Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Kylo will redeem, kill all his knights but admit he cannot ever control his darkness. He'll head to Ach-To to spend the rest of his days cut off in a self inflicted prison. Only Rey will know where he is and many years from now, she'll head back there in an hour of need. It's like poetry...it rhymes....;)
     
  23. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    I am not making my point clearly.

    I dont think its just a good students vs evil students situation.

    Kylo is not completely evil here, he is a guy who's uncle/master pulled a lightsaber on him while he was sleeping.
    He hadnt actually done anything before this.

    And Luke is not completely good here, he did pull the lightsaber on his only nephew/apprentice.

    So some believed Kylo and some saw him as a monster like his grandpa.
    Then a fight broke out b/w them.

    Nobody intended to kill each other.
    It probably was more a kill or be killed fight.

    So those who lived, they followed Kylo.
    And after that turned to the dark side.
    And became Kylo's KOR.

    Like Rey said Kylo's decision wasnt made until Luke pulled his lightsaber on him.

    So i think just like Kylo, the other KOR made their decision to turn and follow Kylo after the temple destruction.

    Am i making any sense with this?
     
  24. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Co-Purveyor of ST Trivia star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2001
    Or pick tatooine (my personal choice if I got a vote) because his family is from there and that's what Bens in exile have done previously ;)
     
  25. Rylo_Ken

    Rylo_Ken Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2015
    The Skywalker line was born there...and it shall go there to die ;)