ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode IX

Good questions as always, @The Regular Mustache.

You asked earlier how those in favor of redemption would see Ben Solo resolving. I think he--and Rey for that matter--will not be fully Light when the dust settles. I think we're seeing a new theology (for lack of a better term) emerging with the Force. Luke challenged Rey to see the light and darkness in us all. It's all part of the Force. And I suspect that Ben will not return to the light per se, but rather accept the light within that has never left him and find a sense of balance and with that inner peace.

I don't see him dying for his sins. That is too much of a redux on the Vader story. I dont' see him dying unredeemed either. After all, he is the last Skywalker and it would be nice for a nine film saga to end on a hopeful note. But I don't see him joining the Resistance (I don't see Rey remaining there either for that matter because of the secrets she carries specifically related to her bond with him.) I can envision Kylo Ren accepting his birth name (and he's already doing it on some level with Rey. After all, why trot out a birth name if a tragic figure isn't going to fully reclaim it) and playing some role working with Rey. Perhaps he turns on Hux and helps cut the head off the FO once and for all. But I don't seeit as simply an act to be a good guy. It will be either to protect someone he cares deeply about (Rey) or to avenge his mother's death (which could be a plot point that emerged after Carrie's passing. What if Hux is responsible for Leia's death as a blow against Kylo Ren?)

But he's never going to be a binary white hat good guy. He will be a reluctant ally helping to do the right thing. But that guilt and burden he carries for his sins will never go away.

Executing him? Not really an option. I am hopeful the republic/rebel alliance/resistance would be to highly evolved to embrace capital punishment. (sorry, my personal politics will always bleed through here.)

Imprisonment: not a good storyline unless you're planning on telling a story where there is a jailbreak.

Exile/Vanish: this makes the most sense from a storytelling standpoint. Either self-imposed exile or state-sanctioned, I guess either is fine. I don't see him a teacher as much as I see him the eventual student learning from someone like Rey what it means to be light and dark.

As for future films, I doubt Adam Driver--self-admitted SW fanboy notwithstanding--wanting to sign on for another trilogy in the prime of his career (Maybe later when he's older.) But let's say that happens and there is a future story about Ben Solo (Honestly, this would work well in novels as well.) I see him a bit of a phantom--not interfacing with warring factions or politics, there if you know where to find him. He has ascended to what he thinks he wants--authority, autonomy and finally full agency. I think future stories will be about truly understanding agency and autonomy. The would be about making right decisions and helping if the cause is just.

You can't erase killing your own father. But can atone in smaller ways, each act trying to pay back the bank, but never quite enough to ever settle the debt.

As for Rey, I can see them with a complicated relationship. No, I never see them with the white picket fence, 2 kids, a dog, cat and a goldfish. They did that with Han and Leia in the novels but then for the films had to tear them apart because happily ever after is boring when it come to creating a new saga. There may be a child or two. They care for each other. They learn from each other. But for Ben Solo his happily ever after will always be one step closer, a little more in reach each day. But the wounds from the past dull and fade over, that peace he seeks is something he'll have to work for each and every day of the rest of his life.

 

Ben in exile could be interesting. I can't help but think of the Luke parallels. Luke the last Jedi was in exile for failing Ben, then Ben Solo, the last Skywalker/Solo (and soon to be the most literally named character in Star Wars) will be exiled for failing himself.

I don't know. I really can't get a read on what would be the most emotionally satisfying ending for Ben in Ep. 9. My biggest hope is that they sidestep doing a Darth Vader redux. Prior to TLJ and Luke's death I was cool with Kylo remaining evil if only to challenge our expectations that he'd be redeemed like Vader but from a narrative point of view I don't know how much gas it puts in the tank to keep Ben evil.

Even though I'm not on Rey and Ben getting together it might be the thing that would provide the most drama and future story possibilities.

 

So who's the Big Baddie in ep9? I know it's supposed to be Kylo Ren BUT so far the "ultimate villains" in SW were 100% evil 100% superpowerful guys....Kylo is a great villain but he's not that "ancient dark sider with unlimited pooooowah". He has flaws, weaknesses, he's emotionally unstable and far from infaillble. So i see two options here for the stakes to be high:
-either in the time gap during TLJ and ep9 (i think there will be one, like 3 years or more) Kylo Ren will have morphed into a far more powerful and scary opponent. Not the young man with internal conflict anymore. Not this sort of "anti-hero" if that makes sense, but a pure evil individual to be feared.
-Or else there will be another villain, someone above Ben in the dark side...but with Snoke dead - and i don't think we'll see him again- i don't see how this will happen.

Or maybe they'll take the risk of not having this "ultimate evil-beyond-redemtion-and-ultra-powerful" creature of the darkness. That can be interesting but the script has to be super original and surprising.

I wonder how it will turn out! What would you guys prefer? Emperor Ren -years later- who has little in common with the impuslive and unstable Kylo Ren that we know? Another big baddie (snoke back or anything else) as a twist? Or the same conflicted, flawed villain who no takes his chance to be the new emperor but might not be up to the task?

 

I wonder if this is a different kind of story. Maybe the ST isn't trying to fill the shoes of the Emperor or Vader.

 

I don't think it is, and that's why some people are surprised at how TLJ played out. Ben has the right idea. History repeating has to end. History has already changed the moment he and Rey joined forces and combined light and dark. Something Luke and Vader never did. I think the big baddie has always been Snoke in the ST and what he left behind is a mess that could ruin or unite both sides depending on what Ben and Rey do.

 

Saga films - Skywalkers

Anthology films and other trilogies - Non-Skywalkers

 

I agree with the Skywalker legacy being one of Hope. However, while technically Kylo Ren is a Skywalker, they make it clear in TLJ that he is a Solo. So, when they talk of ending the Skywalker line, I think it means it ends with Luke (and maybe Leia). That Kylo Ren is a new generation outside of the Skywalker legacy.
TBH, I see Kylo Ren continuing on past Ep IX, as the villain our non-Skywalker heros will have to fight against. He'll play a smaller, background role in the series, similar to how Vader was in the OT. If he doesn't live on as the villain, my second opinion is that he and Rey will somehow forge a new order where the Dark and Light are symbiotic in nature.

 

I think so too about the legacy. Snoke said it all. Kylo will never be Vader (Skywalker) because he has too much of his father's (Solo) heart. I think he and Rey will likely have a child who will be a mix of Solo and Rey's blood (with barely any Skywalker) and any child after that will not have Skywalker blood. It ended with Luke.

 

This is not how genetics or family trees work.

 

It's SW lol

 

And so, then, pray tell, on which SW established canonical source did you base your "reasoning" about diminishing Skywalker blood ???
I'm sorry, but this is as idiotic as the ignorant notion that a descendant from the female line (and in particular Leia's) is somehow less Skywalker than Luke's. Or similar nonsense.

Again. None of what you say above is how genetics and family trees work in the real world nor in a GFFA.
I'm sorry but I have to call this out.

 

Wow... geez I'm sorry. Guess I'll keep my ideas to myself from now on.

 

The Last Jedi really felt like it was the ending. I genuinely left it without wondering what happens next.
Kylo seems beyond redemption. He made his choice. I suppose he gets killed in episode IX.

As for the Skywalker bloodline, unless Rey is carrying Luke's babies (was THAT the 3rd lesson!!??)...I think the Skywalker bloodline would have to end with Kylo Ren. Although, if Anakin's father was the Force itself, then you could say that more Skywalkers are possible...from a certain point of view.

 

Perhaps another POV on the Skywalker bloodline discussion. When they talk of it being the end of the "story," I believe they refer to the Skywalker Saga, not the Skywalker bloodline. The Skywalker saga was the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. There is another story (saga) to tell now. Which may or may not include people with Skywalker blood.

 

Think we'll see a bald Kylo in Episode 9...Since they had concept pieces of him looking that way for TLJ. I think with a time passage of a few years, it might be cool to give Kylo a radical new look, like he's more soulless, more evil.

 

I don’t think you will see him bald. His appearance will change if keeps pushing dark. His skin mainly and possibly his eyes. Just giving him skin that starts falling apart and he looks like a monster, will not completely do it. He will need to do something threatening.

 

Idk where they’ll take Ben but if they don’t want to repeat Vader’s redemption or just killing him in IX maybe Ben could end up similar to Ulic Qel-Droma from legends and go into a sort of exile situation? I mean they both started as Jedi and killed a family member. Maybe Luke shutting himself off from the Force was foreshadowing of what will happen to Ben as well? Plus, it opens up the potential for his inclusion in any future materials and movies in a couple years hopefully.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yeah. At this point, I really think of Hux as the closest thing to the main villain of the ST. Not in that he's some big threat with tremendous personal power like Sidious or Snoke, but in what he represents. The rotten system itself, the cycle of corruption and upheaval wrecking the galaxy for sixty years now. He's like Sauron in LotR, just a symbol, an opposition, and the real question is about the manner in which all the other characters, all over the moral spectrum, respond to it.

With the way the ST is going, it really shouldn't end with some big showdown like the previous couple. And I think that's a very exciting proposition.

 

I always find it interesting how the Force keeps stopping Rey and Kylo from killing each other. She was about to kill him on SKB and the ground splits just at that moment. They fight for the saber in the throne room and it splits, plus Holdo rams the ship once again splitting them apart. If they try a 3rd time I fear the universe will try and split just to stop them lol

 

Really don't want to see him in anyone converted back to the light - we've done this whole turning thing too many times and would be a serious cop out. A reversal of ROTS where the First Orders is wiped out and he is beaten and forced into exile Yoda style. Make it pretty clear that this is a win for the good guys but leave the door open. If there was ever a sequel, you could reverse the originals and have some promising bad guy end up having to seek out dark lord Kylo Ren instead of starting out straight in the middle of a war.

If anyone is 'converted back to the light' in Episode 9 it could be Ren's apprentice who helps scupper the bad guys from the inside.

 

I'm starting to think there is no returning to the Light. Ben is both Light and Dark already and we've seen both sides in TLJ. It's a matter of wanting to help his mother and Rey or continuing to try and change the FO from within. If he helps, or joins them, he will still carry darkness in him. Rey is the same way too.

 

I think it's kinda sorta going to be the other way around. The mainline movies will be about new non-Skywalker and the Anthology films will be about people and/or stories that have some connection to the Skywalkers.

 

I doubt, first because the Story group have confirmed Kylo is the Skywalker of this trilogy, second because Anakin/Vader had just as much if not more heart than Han Solo. You have to assume Snoke saying this is manipulating Kylo to get rid of Vader's weakness.

 

Yeah, the Force seems to have an opinion here. The Force theme plays when Rey and Kylo touch hands, and after Snoke is killed.

 

I do think Kylo Ren will be the big bad for all intents and purposes but I also think the big bad could be an idea more than a person. Maybe the big bad is vanity, self doubt, self absorption or something like that. It could be an idea that all the characters are struggling with.

Kylo is without Snoke, Rey is without Luke, Poe is presumably without Leia, Chewie is without Han. Maybe they'll play all of this up? The Big Bad is the fear of not being able to live up to expectations, not being able to match what came before? How meta!