ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VII

Yeah, I agree - that doesn't make sense and quite frankly I've never understood the idea of using both the light and dark side - that contradicts itself as well. It almost sounds like it's a way to lure someone to the dark side - telling them they're using both and that it's a balance in the Force when really it just leads to the dark side in the end. Watching the OT growing up I felt the message was that the light side of the Force brings peace both internally and to society while the dark side brings misery internally and to society. So it's really just a choice whether you want to be more miserable or at peace. And I never felt the PT lined up with that teaching either so it just always felt off to me - it's as if they misunderstood the point of the Force too. So I'm hoping they'll bring back what the Force originally felt like in the OT.

 

I was with you until you said this. The Sith were just an organization that used the dark side. The dark side is an energy field that you don't have to be part of any organization to use. For all we know, Snoke is more of a dark side user than the Sith ever were.

 

Those were my thoughts exactly. It was the only reason I refrained from liking the post - agreed with everything else.

 

Is there any reason for that or is it down to speculation?

I would guess he was either feeling his armour fill with blood and was trying to get it out, or he was trying to cause himself more pain and anger to feel on through the dark side.

 

In the EU, something similar happened in the novel The Clone Wars: Wild Space - here, it was Obi-Wan who needed to be intentionally injured - on a planet suffused in mind-clouding Dark Side energy, it was the only way to bring him to full consciousness and clear his head, at times.

The "feeding off his own pain" explanation might work better for Kylo though.

 

increase his rage and pain the only logical explanation. Maybe that could stop him from fall or faint

 

I think it was more for the audience to note that his injury was a contributing equalizer.

 

that is what the director also wanted..not the character explanation for it lol

 

Yes - I think Jedilight called it right...

 

I would think that the blood dripping on the ground would have been enough for a general audience to realize Kylo was injured and maybe weakening. In most film scenes where one is injured they hold the wound, or cup their hand and look at the blood, or something that specifically says to the audience that they are seriously wounded. It seems a bit silly - like putting on a sign - to violently pound on a wound to say, "Here! Here, unobservant audience, I am wounded here. Ooof. Ouch. Yeah right there! If you missed it let me hit myself again. Ow! Okay, got it?"

The intensity behind the self inflicted strikes on his wound to me were an indication of Kylo ramping up the pain, to help him ramp up the intensity of his emotions and letting pain sharpen his focus in a period when he felt himself weakening. By this time in the movie it seemed a very Kylo thing to do.

 

I believe he may have been losing feeling in his side.

 

I have the book but haven't read it yet... Is it mentioned in there?

What I also wonder is why they unmasked him so soon? It took away the mystery and enigma pretty quickly, though this may have been to humanise him a bit more before revealing him to be a Solo, or showing him NOT to be as epic as Vader who he at first seems to be, and clearly wants to be, or maybe it was just to make him a little less scary for the younger viewers after his tense intro?

It seems like a strange, and frankly, uncliché thing to do (an antitrope maybe?) and I feel like I should give it props for that, but you can't JUST merit it for being different, it has to be good in its own right, and I do KIND OF wish they'd kept him masked a while longer, but IF it would have compromised his humanity, conflict and identity as Ben Solo then it obviously was a wise decision.

 

Well they did say that, while "Legends" is non-canon, that they'd be perfectly willing to mine things/ideas from it for their new canon if they felt that it makes things better. And they've been doing exactly that for years now across their various media projects. And Thrawn is a really popular EU character. So I could see them bringing him back potentially. Maybe not exactly the same way, but a version of him.

I also hope that we get a re-canonized Revan at some point as well.

Darth DoJ I actually think that they bit the perfect spot to unmask him. One, that's one of my top three scenes in the film, and it works so well partly because of both Adam and Daisy's performances (and it wouldn't have worked nearly as well if you couldn't see BOTH of their faces).

And two, it is meant to humanize him and to show you that he's NOT Vader. He's a guy playing the part, a guy who WANTS to be Vader, but doesn't truly understand Vader or how we operated/what he was about. He's not a "calm menacing bad***" but his psychotic instability/temper makes him do less dangerous (he's just dangerous in a different way).

And third, I do believe that there's a bit of meta commentary in his character. Sort of saying that it's impossible to truly replace a villain as awesome, popular, and iconic as Vader, so don't even try. Instead, make a new and interesting villain, but one who's different (and Kylo is all of those things).

 

Yeah, I think that would be a smart move to bring Thrawn's character back even if not exact, as you say. I need to try and find that article again - it got me a little excited that it might be true since it was so recent.

And well said on Kylo! That's my take on it too. One of the top scenes in the movie!

 

Kylo looks and sounds creepy in the mask and hood get-up, but it clearly wrong foots Rey when she sees his (relatively) handsome features and not the "creature in a mask" that she was expecting.

Incidentally Kylo Ren's appearance and character are exactly like the mental image I had of pre-injury Vader / Anakin Skywalker in my fan-brain.

 

The whole point is that, in a way, he's just a guy playing dress-up. Vader wore the armor, helmet, and mask because he had to (the cape was just a cool aesthetically choice I'm assuming). He literally couldn't survive without them. Kylo, doesn't need them because there's nothing physically wrong with him. He wears them, because he thinks that it makes him more like Vader and because he's only truly confident in his own power when he can hide behind the mask, voice, and persona. Hence why his demeanor starts to change very quickly once the mask comes off.

It just further shows how little he actually knows about Vader and what he was really like/all about.

 

I was happy to learn Adam Driver had insisted to not have any other actor/stunt guy play Kylo no matter how small or dangerous the scene. So it should be him in every scene under the mask and suit.

 

I just realized after 3 viewings that Phasma is not the only female trooper. There is a brief scene in which a female stormtrooper gives Kylo an update.

 

there are many female officers as well.

 

Yeah after Rey escapes, one of the stormtroopers who reports to Kylo clearly has a female voice. And there are female FO officers sprinkled around both the SD and SKB (one of whom is Dutch from SyFy's Killjoys, which was nice).

 

I am not sure where to start actually... I believe that the character of Kylo Ren is a lot more complex than we believe. He is not this lost young person who got manipulated and mislead - he is actually much more than that. What if he decided to infiltrate the first order and consequently pretend that he fell to the dark side. I suppose one could say no matter the reasoning of his actions, he is an evil guy. That could be true... from a certain point of view. It is entirely possible that while Kylo's initial motives were noble, he ended up falling to the dark side (it was the exact same thing with Vader). Anyhow, what if all he did was for one reason: to get close to Snoke in order to eliminate him and restore balance to the force?

Now, hear me out on this. We know very little about how Kylo Ren's downfall occurred and how he became Snoke's apprentice (not even sure if apprentice is the right word). What we do know is that Kylo Ren was Luke Skywalker's apprentice or at the very least he was taught by him. Then, later on at some point he somehow got 'in touch' with Snoke and one thing lead to another... Now, what if upon realizing who Snoke was and how powerful he is, Kylo decided the only way to beat him was to join him and pretend to be his apprentice. To defeat your enemy, you have to understand him, if you will.

I always thought that in order for the prophecy of the Chosen One to be fulfilled and Sith destroyed, Vader's fall was a necessity. If Anakin Skywalker would not fall to the dark side, he would have probably died during the Jedi Purge with other Jedi and Palpatine would rule the galaxy uncontested without anyone being able to put an end to his reign.

Is Kylo thinking along those lines? I think he could - he is clearly obsessed with persona of Darth Vader. Consider the following quote: "I will finish what you started." There are two possible things Kylo can mean by saying that. Either he wants to completely exterminate the Jedi OR he wants to destroy the Sith. Vader did both those things. I suppose Kylo could also be trying to achieve those two things as well.

Another quote to consider: "I feel it again... the call to the light. The Supreme Leader senses it. Help me, grandfather". Is it possible that Kylo is struggling to conceal his true identity and is afraid that Snoke will see right through him?

What speaks against this theory is: He killed his father. Would he truly be willing to go to such lengths to conceal his true purpose? Honestly, I think it is possible. Perhaps that was the true final test Snoke gave him. Maybe Kylo realized that in order to get close to Snoke, he had to kill his father. After doing 'the deed' he was clearly very upset.

 

Yeah I seriously doubt that they're going with the whole "he's undercover" thing. And they've already said that there were no Sith in TFA anyway, plus Kylo specifically asks Vader's helmet to "show him again, the power of the dark." That's very telling.

 

The undercover thing would be the stupidest retcon imaginable.

 

And it'd make him the most incompetent undercover operative ever.