ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in the ST

That would be great. Make him a darkside badass, that Rey has to figure out in ix.

 

I think he'll struggle between the light and dark, but become even darker. How remains to be seen.

 

I'd prefer that actually. And I'd love it if he eliminates Snoke. If Kylo becomes even more powerful, how will Luke even deal with that? It could be great conflict and something we haven't seen before. The student surpasses both masters.

 

I think Kylo is such a problem for Luke because Kylo would happily kill Luke, but I can't see Luke ever killing his own kin. (I think the time for Luke to have gone ballistic would have been when he found his temple destroyed and his stundents murdered.)

 

I agree about Luke and Kylo. That is one reason why Kylo going even darker would be an interesting twist and something new.

 

I tend to believe the rumor that Snoke betrays Kylo. Kylo starts to pull away and then Snoke preempts him. Like you sense someone breaking up with you then you pull the rug right up from under them for someone better. In this case, Rey.

 

It would be interesting if that scene happened.

 

Kind of like that council of manufacturers that all quit the presidential committee only to have Trump preempt their press release: "You can't quit because I already fired you!!!!!"

 

It might come down with what Snoke wanted Kylo *for." Just a powerful minion? Didn't Han tell Kylo that when Snoke's finished with Kylo he'll "crush" him? Doesn't sound like a Palpatine-Vader thing to me at all.

And I expect that if Snoke discards Kylo, he'll try to kill him. Last thing Snoke needs is another living Skywalker not under his control.

 

I have a hard time thinking Snoke would be putting up with this (Kylo causing problems at every turn almost) and not have a plan to ultimately dump him. Isn't that what Han said? And Kylo pretty much agreed? It was foreshadowing, IMO, as to how this is going to play out. Snoke sees something new and shinier and that's what he wants.

He betrays Kylo (although Kylo is practically there himself - breaking away from Snoke) and ends the film as a man without a cause. But in IX he chooses to assist the resistance or go after Snoke on his own (which is essentially aiding the Resistance). That's how I see it anyway.

 

I'd much rather that than a Kylo redemption arc.

Like....
Snoke senses Kylo is too weak, and will fail, but uses him regardless until finally dumping him. Perhaps Snoke now wants to turn Rey.
Kylo follows all of Snoke's orders, on the promise that his temptation to the light will go away, but it really doesn't. Once dumped (perhaps for potential Dark Rey), he's filled with emptiness, rage, and envy. He feels it's his destiny to inherit this power, not some 'scavenger'. He plots his revenge, kills Snoke and takes the Supreme Leader's place. (This all happening in perhaps one grand scene at the end of EP 8 or beginning of 9) Perhaps this does finally make Kylo more powerful. Perhaps it really doesn't. Maybe Snoke, as a character, as a big-baddie, is just misdirection. He's not really important to the end game.

Then, instead of having to up against a Snoke character, the heroes have to face Kylo.

 

This is the closest thing we have from MSW about where Kylo and Snoke are near the end of the film:

It's possible that Kylo and Snoke are estranged in this scenario, but Rey and Luke dividing up their enemies like this suggests to me some alignment between Kylo and Snoke. Jason seems pretty uncertain here however, so perhaps this is just the start of act 3 and there are twists to come before it's all over.

 

I don't know if Kylo would kill Luke. Hmmm. He does give that impression and I wouldn't take chances if I were Luke, but having killed his own father and not feeling what, in his mind, would be "the benefits" of doing so, I don't think him hurting Luke would give him that satisfaction unless just for the sake of it. I think Kylo wants something from Luke e.g. whatever Jedi knowledge Luke has discovered that could put Kylo at a huge advantage in relation to Luke and Rey. Or, the Jedi books we see in the trailer, the necklace Luke wears, etc. Kylo gives Snoke the impression that he will hunt down and kill Luke. That may be so, however, I think he has a different agenda that Snoke may be not aware of right now. Again, his struggle with light and dark, will also play into this. I still think Luke has the upper hand. OR. both Kylo and Luke have something on each other that could lead to the demise of the other or create conflict with Rey.

As for Luke not killing Kylo. hmmm. I wouldn't put anything past him. Who knows what his feelings are, but knowing that's his sister's son, that would be a big reason not to. Maybe that's not his job to tackle, but Rey's.

 

Considering that RJ is leaving the Resistance in a dire situation, to me, it only makes sense that Kylo will grow even darker. To see him go to the light in the end, seems awkward to me for a second act film in a trilogy. Who knows. He will struggle for sure, but that would just seem odd.

 

I can kind of roll with Luke doing a few things that aren't where his younger self was, but killing his nephew still feels like a huge no-no to me in light of everything else. That said, you could be onto something with Rey, but I do not think that Luke cajoles her. Perhaps this is something she would do because Luke will not. A lot of interesting theories buzzing around in this thread. I like 'em.

 

Yeah, I don't think Luke really would do it, but who knows. His sister's son? hmmmmm. I wouldn't put anything past RJ. But something tells me whatever went down at that Jedi temple a few years back will provide a major twist. I have this feeling Luke and Kylo have something on each other that will affect and challenge how Rey will perceive both of them as well as how she chooses to act moving forward. I do believe both Luke and Kylo have the same "weakness" and that will be Leia.

 

what kind of twist could have happened with the Jedi temple burning?

 

Not sure, but think this is where we also find out why Luke become disillusioned with the Jedi. As PH has said what went on with Luke and Ben isn't out there.

 

Given that the temple destruction seems like it coincided with the Vader reveal, I do wonder whether we'll see a scenario where his Jedi acolytes turn on Luke and Ben. That might go some way to explaining why he's disillusioned with the Jedi in general: he presumably tried to pass on the qualities of hope and forgiveness that helped him 'save' his father, only to possibly see his teaching fall on deaf ears when his own parentage become known to a wider world.

Add Ben's betrayal on top of that, and...yeah, i'd be depressed too.

 

That's one scenario which did not yet come to my mind.

 

Yeah, same here. That would be an interesting take on things.

 

Now I can't get the image out of my head of Ben/Luke fighting off Luke's evil students after they found out they were Vader's kin..

 

I don't necessarily think they'd need to be positioned as 'evil' really: 'Bloodline' made clear that Vader's name is still mud in the wider world. In that context, the backlash as a result of the reveal makes sense to me, and that was only aimed at Leia - imagine the prospective fear and mistrust of Luke, the galaxy's great Jedi - as well as the sense of betrayal if you'd been learning under him.

 

luke: et tu ben?

ben: no luke. i'm turning on you for a totally different reason. i mean it's the same reason but i interpret it differently. i fought with you against the others because they dishonored grandfather. but you dishonor him as well. no one understands granddad like i do!

luke: wha??? i told you about how anakin came back at the end.

ben: i was talking about darth vader.

*luke falls to his knees as temple burns and ben walks away*

ummmmm?

i don't know how this works. (not to say i don't think it's interesting!)

 

I really hope Kylo Ren kills Snoke in Episode IX. And please no redemption story for Kylo.