ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in the ST

Did Pepsi brainwashed Coke?

 

What purpose would controlling Kylo and making him kill Han even serve? No. The dude isn't the Winter Soldier,

 

wouldnt that be the worst kind of cop-out, that he wasnt REALLY resposible for any of his actions and now he can be a good guy whee

lame

 

Goes along with todays theme in society where no one takes blame...everyone is a victim and if so, a story I would hate to see in SW.

 

Kylo destroying his helmet will not be meaningless. It's not the same as him taking his saber to FO computer panels in a fit. He won't be wearing a new helmet after he smashes this one. He's done with it. That's the point.

"You don't need it." - Han Solo.

 

If that scene of him flying is right after him destroying the helmet, and they are trying to let you know he is not this insecure little boy anymore. There will be a lot of blown up x-wings.

 

the thing is that people see the helmet shattered in the teaser and kylo banging it against the wall in the trailer and then assume that's when he destroyed it. i think that assumption is not a good one. it could be earlier foreshadowing of what comes later - whether kylo destroyed it himself or it was destroyed in an explosion.

 

I doubt that is when it happens, as in the trailer. I do think it’s all him though, doing it. His demeanor will be different.

 

Anyone who thinks killing your parents is the best path to get rid of internal pain and feeling good is either brainwashed or stupid. I'm going with brainwashed.

 

Where is it stated that he has to get rid of any internal pain by killing Han? Mind you that I haven't watched TFA in a year, but I thought it was more of a coming of age tradition in whatever philosophy Kylo was being taught by Snoke.

 

"I'm being torn apart. I want to be free of this pain. I know what I have to do but I don't know if I have the strenght to do it."

 

Yeah, Kylo did not want to kill Han, but he felt he had to. I think he is brainwashed by an incessant need to finish what Vader started which to him means he must become fully dark. It is like he believes it is his destiny no matter what. Snoke is probably a huge reason why Kylo feels this way. Kylo can be 'brainwashed' without that meaning he is being mind controlled. He is making his own decisions, but he is utterly wrong and misguided.

We know Snoke has powerful mind Force powers, as does Kylo. Imo, there is no way Snoke has not used those powers on Kylo to manipulate him. We also know Snoke is using Kylo, as Han said.

 

You would think Kylo could resist a full mind control from Snoke with his power in the force but we are talking about someone who couldn't even force his will on an untrained scavenger when it came to those mind tricks.

 

I think the answer lies in ROTS and how Palpatine manipulated events and twisted reality in Anakin's mind, turning him against his piers and even more importantly, his closest friends. I'm not saying Snoke copied Palps word for word but his method must've been similar, preying on Kylo's false beliefs that he was being held back by a jealous mentor and building on his lust for power.

The final straw seems to be the master getting the disciple to destroy his mentors place of education, both Anakin and now Kylo destroying the Jedi Temple and killing the students. Not only do they destroy the present threat but also the future, both signifying the point of no return.

 

I think its alluded to in one of the recent novels, that Snoke was attempting to exert his influence on Ben even before he was born. Leia could sense his unease as he moved inside her. That's all we have so far I think. The seduction and Ben's ultimate submission to Snoke is still untold.
It must be intense though. Turning Ben into a cold blooded killer

 

I suspect she has been trained there is no way a child was dumped there alone without someone raising her helping her become self sufficient before they died.
Unkar Plutt could have enslaved her unless he had good reason not to and someone like Ezra or Kanan or the like raising her would fit the bill.
They placed a geas for want of a better word to insure she remained hidden it took Maz pointing out the loophole and Finn returning to rescue her to free her from that mind trick?

 

That is a good point. In the force awakens- the helmet seemed pretty heavy duty. Its hard to imagine that Kylo could just smash it so easily.

 

i mean i totally think he might destroy it by the end of the movie. i guess so far i'm imagining him angry after the d'qar mission and he takes it out by punching his helmet into the wall, then probably puts it back on when the lift opens to appear "normal." TFA kylo would have likely destroyed the lift with his lightsaber but maybe RJ is moving away from that.

kylo has an awful relationship with his helmet anyway. everyone hates it and asks him to remove it. he shoves it into ash piles. drops it like its worthless. destroying it or pounding it into things probably reflects his self-loathing. it's like the symbol of his identity problems.

 

Maybe he smashed a replica of his mask? People seem to be into selling and buying artifacts and replicas- why would the people in the star wars universe be any different? I bet Obama and Trump and other world leaders have their own action figures. I can't imagine Kylo reacting well to people selling stuff with his image though. Maybe Snoke was giving out plastic Kylo Ren replica masks like corporate freebies.

I get all kinds of weird freebies at work. One time my company was giving out free mini glasses cleaner with the company logo on it. A few people thought it was mouth spray. It was an interesting meeting shall we say.

 

i woke up with a potential kylo plot for TLJ.

kylo does start out early in the movie faced with this conflict regarding blasting his mother into oblivion and it hurts and he can't do it and it hurt to kill his father and he is even more tormented because of this, and he is beginning to get unnerved with these mandates from supreme leader which seem to just make him more of a mess inside. and more importantly he realizes that his problem is not darth vader's problem. he's not going back to the light because he doesn't want to kill his mother. he just doesn't want to kill his mother.

some of his internal conflict is played out by destroying his helmet in the elevator (taking back my earlier assertion that it's later as some um image analysis has made me think it may very well be near the beginning in the elevator). perhaps this was right after meeting with snoke over his "failure" at d'qar lol. and maybe he starts to see that stupid helmet as more about what snoke wants him to be than about who he is.

(also i think that snoke did task kylo with killing his mother next and "fulfilling his destiny" and kylo doesn't want to repeat the same story in TFA again only with the other parent. patricide wasn't what is was cracked up to be, and he's had enough.)

next kylo shows up on ahch-to - in the teaser shot with his flamethrower lightsaber (i.e. he is at his most unstable). he's angry and unhinged. but at some point he begins to realize that rey may be able to help him with his snoke problem if he can only convince her. so a tension does form between the three of them - rey, kylo and luke - and rey is caught between luke's advice of don't try it and kylo's proposition that they can take out snoke. for some reason by this point rey is more personally invested in taking snoke out than before (um when she didn't even know who he was). so something has transpired in her story before this, and i don't know what.

(the reason for the proposed alliance is assuming kylo and rey are both these force superpowers and now that they know it they think that combined it would be enough to overcome snoke.)

eventually rey agrees to the plan (and perhaps helps form it). kylo and rey leave separately. this can't look like an alliance from the outside. luke is angry and he warns that this is not going to go the way rey thinks. the audience is left wondering if luke is warning that kylo will betray rey or if rey and kylo's plan won't work, or both.

rey ends up on the supremacy in her part of the plan and she fights through at least a few PGs to get to snoke. i don't know what kylo's part of the plan is. really, i do not know what the plan exactly is. despite the shot from the trailer that looks quite dire for rey, they actually "succeed" in the plan. it seems they actually defeated snoke. i am not sure how it *seems* that way.

after this however, they remain on opposite sides and kylo himself believes in taking out the resistance. so rey and kylo end up on crait separately per their own agendas.

kylo makes his way into the base and if there is a scene with leia that's when it is. this is near the end of the movie or at the end. but there's another factor which "no one saw coming." snoke is not defeated (he merely deceived kylo wanting him to think he was). i don't know what terrible thing snoke will do at the end of the movie. but it may bode very badly for kylo or leia or both.

regarding the helmet/elevator destruction - the destroyed helmet looks like it might be in the elevator, and more importantly i don't think kylo is wearing his helmet when he marches into the resistance base. it's like he destroyed it early in the movie which is why it never makes another appearance.

kylo and rey would parallel in this story in that they both go from relying on guidance to being their own guides.

rey might feel in the force somehow when snoke isn't gone though and she may have to return to master luke and admit she was wrong. so for her this begins and ends on ahch-to. perhaps her humility at her mistake is what solidifies their relationship - luke now has faith in rey.

anyway it would be so much nicer for the plot if the rey/snoke scene was at the end of the movie not the middle. and maybe ThreeDeathstickProblem had a point about injuries being removed from trailers? so maybe she does have her bruise in the snoke scene, but it was removed from the trailer?

 

He's a powerful force user. If he can stop a laser bolt in mid air and release it at will without even looking, then he can smash a metal helmet banging it against a metal wall.

 

not to mention rey's mountain splitting powerz. if it's indeed set up that both of them have the raw-super-powerz issue, the helmet smashing might be one such example.

i noticed also in the clip there is a flash of light upon impact of helmet with wall and in the teaser trailer there is smoke rising from shattered helmet and the wall (glass from lights) seems to be shattered too on the floor:

Spoiler: too big gifs

 

already cut it together in my trailer vid...

 

Does anyone else think the design of that elevator makes it look like the bars of a cell/cage?