ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in the ST

I am going to buck the trend on this one (shock I am sure you are) but Ben seems to be more of a Useful Idiot too Snoke then a real ally. Ben seems to me at least ( which Drive did an excellent job portraying) as a spoiled rich kid that lacks enough maturity, confidence and insight to be a serious long term threat. Snoke use him to not only keep the new Jedi from forming but also to keep his uncle off balance and out of the picture while he (Snoke) set out to do ... whatever his master plan is.

Snoke must know that Skywalker, whether light or dark, is too powerful for him. Especially a dark Skywalker, who could push Snoke out of the way. So by using Ben, and knowing how Luke feels about family, as long as Ben is evil, Luke won't interfere.
I will go out on a limb early and say Ben will only get enough training to survive long enough to draw Rey out and attempt to turn her.

I would be very surprise if he survives 8.

 

I can see him being the "reverse certain point of view" of Anakin Skywalker killing his grandfather Vader in RotJ.

I'd also like the idea of Force Ghost Anakin helping Luke train Rey, while visions of Darth Vader help Kylo.

 

But how can Ben not know that his grandfather redeemed himself? You'd think it would crop up at least ONCE during training or at the dinner table at home.

 

Maybe he does, and has just rejected it. I kind of want to see parallel "training arcs" for both Rey and Kylo. It makes sense, and would make their next battle all the cooler. Also expand on the potential "connection" between him and Rey. Because they hinted at it early on, but then left it vague. And as for which way his character will ultimately go (light or dark), well they left it open for him to go in either direction moving forward, which is cool.

And yes, at least one scene with Leia please (and Luke for that matter).

 

I agree that 8 will focus heavily on the training of Kylo and Rey. The ending of TFA perfectly set that up. I have no idea what will happen between them but I think Kylo has to defeat Rey at the end of 8. It would be dumb to see her best him two movies in a row.

 

He (Ben) thinks the Skywalkers should be a political dynasty. Ben might have come to the conclusion his mother and Luke were wrong to take a 'back-seat' and let others rebuild the political settlement.

In Ben's eyes, Anakin's redemption might have been interpreted as an attempt to overthrow the Emperor - with Luke failing to take the throne, so to speak. The kid might have been annoyed Leia had no interest (as far as we're aware) of becoming Chancellor of the Republic.

 

Not if she is ultimately supposed to go up against Snoke in 9.

My fan boy speaking: I would love for Rey and Ben to go at it again, after a long fight she defeats him again. And as she stand over him, he screams at her t do it and how weak she is if she lets him live. But she does, taking him back with her, against the will of not only Ben but Chewie, Finn and Poe. Rey has him hauled into a prison cell and as he lays there, Leia comes in.
Doesn't say a word, just a tears going down her face.
He goes off on her, telling Leia how good it felt to kill Han, how powerful he is and will be and other stuff. How proud grandfather would be and how weak she and Luke are. And how proud she should be of him.
And Leia simply says she is not proud of him but that is okay because he is her son and she forgives him and she loves him.
He goes ballistic, demanding that she hate him, how he can feel the hate in her.
But Leia simply shakes her head, "You are my son, I can't hate you. I love you, and your father loves you too, no matter what you did to him."

Ending 8 on that note would be great.

 

I don't think it will focus on eithers training. I think it will focus on Luke and Rey trying to stop Snoke. I also don't feel that Luke nor Rey will kill Kylo, nor do I think that Kylo is redeemable. People have said for months that the reason for having Kylo kill Han was to make people hate him, well no one wants to see the person they hate redeemed. Kylo will likely be killed by Snoke and his death will revel Snoke's plan and purpose.

 

I agree, Kylo seems to be a pawn, not actually even an apprentice. He reminds me vaguely of Darth Maul's position where he was more of a task runner than an actual sith. When Snoke asked for Rey, I had the feeling he was about to do the classic move of trying to get her to convert to the dark side and then having her take Kylo's place.

 

Kylo's journey will be interesting to say the least. When we understand the dynamics of he and Snoke. Also I hope to see the Knights of Ren fleshed out a little more.

 

I have my suspicions that he's killed them all (the Knights of Ren) - first test by Snoke.

 

Important novel detail:



This either means:

Kylo knows Vader turned back to the light.

OR

Snoke only told him about Cloud City, and lied to him about the events of Jedi.

Either way, how the hell does Snoke know about what happened on Cloud City? This guy had to have been really close to Vader or the Emperor.

 

JJ confirmed in a new IGN interview that Kylo knows about Vader's redemption in RotJ. He apparently sees it as Vader being seduced by the Light due to the enemy- Luke. He idolizes Vader; not Anakin.

 

I certainly hope we spend more time with Kylo and the Knights of Ren, especially since he is the master. I'm eager to see him teaching them while at the same time his training is being completed by Snoke.

 

Hate to derail the discussion, but what are your thoughts on Kylo Ren's helmet (probably) being destroyed? I'm a little bummed because, one, I loved the look. It was definitely not entirely original but it was different enough from Vader's to be iconic on it's own.

But what I'm really worried about is his next helmet (it's bound to happen). I think it's going to be a carbon copy of Vader's or something very similar. If you check out the concept art in the book that came out yesterday there were so many boring Vader clones they considered.

I don't want them to literally make him the new Vader. Obviously Vader is a big part of his backstory but let him be is own villain.

Edit: The "book" I'm referring to: Here

 

That whole issue was great. Hope there is more to the helmet in E8. I was expecting more to it in the movie.

 

If you look closely at the OT, Vader had a different helmet in each film (as the costume budget improved with each sequel). So it stands to reason that he swapped them out as they succumbed to wear and tear. Kylo's next helmet will probably be mostly similar to the one in TFA, with a few minor stylistic upgrades.

 

yes the making of book says that kylo struggles to achieve what vader failed to. wipe out the light in himself completely so he won't fail like vader did.

 

So I guess that in VIII ....
1. the galaxy will be back in civil WAR! (the films are called "Star Wars" after all) - blowing up the Republic's government must've fast tracked that
2. Kylo will be better trained than in VII (as will be Rey) BUT
3. Kylo will have grudges to bear against the following:

• Mama / Leia : Kylo could still see her as a potential source of temptation to his salvation from his darkness and therefore a threat to it ... I would hope (for her sake) that she'd give up trying to get him back but perhaps not
• Luke (obviously): Last of the Jedi (+ 1) and a huge threat to Snoke
• Rey: payback for what she did to him plus her potentially being more gifted with the Force than himh

He sees familial ties and sentimentality (with Leia and Han) to be a weakness - ironically something that the old school Jedi also discouraged BUT also probably despises Luke for the fact that he made Vader weak and thus, destroyed the legacy of the Skywalker clan in "ruling the galaxy" .

How to get to Leia: through appealing to her maternal affections to him
How to get to Luke: Leia ... unless Luke has changed and will no longer care about her..
How to get to Rey: who is the one character or person who Rey consistently is shown to be bonded to?

Finn. Kylo will be going all out to get to Rey/Luke by capturing and manipulating Finn (and or Leia), drawing out Luke and Rey..

Behind the scenes of course, Snoke will be manipulating him in order to get to Luke and Rey (as Han pointed out).

 

I wonder how he will look. Driver hated the mask, but maybe it will be necessary to keep it on with the injuries he sustained.

 

He sustained a lightsabre slash between the face, conveniently avoiding his eyes (can I say how happy I am btw that we are past the "Kylo is blind" discussions!!) .. he now has a nice scar to match Snoke's and though I think that he will keep up with the mask, for street cred, like grandfather, I also think that Adam Driver will probably have a bit more clout given how much his performance has been commented on, so perhaps since he hated wearing the mask, they will find an alternative solution..

 

In a way I can kind of see Kylo Ren developing as a sort of Darth Vader mark 2. Rather than train him up to his full potential only to be swayed by feelings for his family Snoke has him kill Han Solo early on. This sort of ties in with what he says to Vader's mask in the film "I will finish what you started" or rather "what you couldn't". I can see him becoming much more powerful and dangerous in the next 2 films.

 

Kylo Ren was my favourite 'new' element in TFA. I think Adam Driver did an incredible job portraying a very complex character. He's a villain but he's a flawed villain - his emotions overcome him. He makes mistakes. Some fans complain about these flaws but to me they're what make him human and therefore a relatable and more compelling villain.

As for theories, his helmet is clearly modelled on Vader's. What I find interesting in the shape is the much smaller flared rim around the back (technically called a 'skirt' on helmets I think). This strikes me as a conscious design decision to a suggest a young 'fledgling' Vader. My theory is that this 'skirt' on the helmet will gradually grow larger as Ren becomes more like Vader in the upcoming movies. Perhaps, through his obsession with his grandfather, he literally becomes Vader, or a very close facsimile, in later movies. This would be a great way to kind of bring Vader back without some awkward resurrection plot line. The super fan becomes the idol?!

As for Ren/Ben's relation ship with Rey, I'm opting for cousins rather than siblings!

 

Ha! You posted this whilst I was writing mine - Yes this is what I think although I think the 'becoming Vader' or 'Vader Mk 2' transition will be increasingly overt (maybe through changes in costume) as the movies progress until he, for all intents and purposes, is Vader.

Driver is certainly closer to what I envisioned being inside the Vader costume than anything we've previously had. He would make a fantastic Vader.

 

That vision was awesome. I always found Cade to be an interesting character, a good mirror and contrast to Darth Krayt.