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TFA TLJ Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by RX_Sith, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Pretty sure Kylo = sKYwalker + soLO. Not to mention the fact that Ben rhymes with Ren.

    He didn't entirely choose a name that was different from his birth name or heritage.

    Harrison Ford is the one who renamed the character as Ben (clearly didn't like Skyler or whatever it was) and it was a good call. J.J. is the one who told that nugget. Not only is that the name of his own eldest son, but his eldest son's name was already used for a prior Star Wars character (Ben Kenobi). Harrison's second son, Willard, also had General Willard named after him.

    It seems that Skyler is what morphed into Kylo, but instead of only honoring the Skywalker heritage (perhaps a little too obviously), it was changed to include the Solo half, which honestly defines the character more. They even went out of their way to cast an actor who looks more like a Solo than a Skywalker.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  2. lovethedarkside

    lovethedarkside Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2017
    @NileQT87, two comments. 1) When Han shouted "Ben!" my first gut instinct was that was a clear signal to EU fans: "This is not the EU you were looking for." They killed Jacen Solo and Ben Skywalker with one bird, err name. (And as an EU fan, I'm OK with it.) There is, of course, the obvious nod to Kenobi. So I think the name change was effective, even if Harrison is the one that suggested it. (Skyler? Really?) 2) I agree. They are trying hard to showcase the Solo side of Kylo Ren.

    (Ok, one more, a slightly off topic, but along the same lines of being a clear signal to fans. When Han threw that one guy into the Rahthar's mouth, that was priceless. Han clearly shot first! I still laugh to this day.)
     
  3. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Harrison Ford was my favorite actor as a kid, mainly due to being Indiana Jones and Han Solo. And he didn’t lose any of that charm in TFA. He’s a once in a lifetime actor....and he’s basically just channeling himself. I’ll always treasure TFA for his performance, same reasons for Mark in TLJ.
     
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  4. Ruffmeian

    Ruffmeian Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    I think Harrison IS the epitome of suave. Everything he does seems so effortless and naturally... cool.
     
  5. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    The real American James Bond.
     
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  6. Ruffmeian

    Ruffmeian Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    He even makes his out-of-style earring come back in style.
     
  7. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Something to ponder:

    Is Kylo Ren's ability to deceive and mask his true intentions, which we see as Snoke's downfall, and also Rey's mistake to a certain extent, precisely the reason Luke realized that if he had any chance of getting to the truth about what he was sensing... it would only come when Ben wasn't was unable to keep up that act?

    It's pretty clear at this point that not only can Ben Solo hide his true intentions better than everyone thinks... he can do it at the level beyond that for even Force users who think they know him too.
     
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  8. grungebunny

    grungebunny Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    The only time we see him mask his intentions is with Snoke right? Snoke even says, he anticipated Kylo's conflict. He was a honeytrap of Snokes design, not his own.

    I dont see him as skillful at hiding his intentions at all, hes not the great manipulator like Palpatine. He cant perform for any real stretch of time. He struggles to deceive himself. Hes erratic because he can help you or hurt you at any given moment but dont confuse that with plans. Kylo is of the moment, his feelings control him.
     
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  9. BlurryUFOs

    BlurryUFOs Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2016
    agreed. it seems everyone was aware of his conflict and tried to help him until the very last moment. snoke knew even rey would sense it and used that against her. i’d say kylo knew what snoke wanted to see and took advantage of the situation

    i don’t think he’s slave to his emotions though. he waited until rey was there to kill snoke then he blamed it on her. that implies some tact and self preservation
     
  10. grungebunny

    grungebunny Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    There is no indication he planned to kill Snoke until he saw him torture Rey though. Nor that he put her in position to take the blame. He woke up, she was gone, he pinned it on her because it was the first excuse that came to mind. He would have been stupid to do anything else. Hux still has power and influence, both he and Snoke end up dead there is only one candidate. Do we really expect him to admit to it? Or he just walked in, found Snoke dead and fainted in grief? There really was only one excuse that doesn't get him in deep poodoo.
     
  11. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I think Kylo planned to kill Snoke as soon as Rey showed up. His vision of them on the same side showed him this was possible. In the elevator he said that when the time came she would be the one to turn, according to what he saw (he saw something beyond Snoke then). What he didn't know was *how* he would be able to kill Snoke.

    Once in the throne room he kneels some distance from Snoke and closes his eyes. I think he was meditating. The Force showed him this future but he doesn't know how to get there. It wasn't until his lightsaber was sent back to him spinning in front of him that it occurred to him how he could pull this off. Then he says to Rey, "I know what I have to do."
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  12. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    No Skylar was never kylo though he was a Solo in some early drafts. But Kylo was always the jedi killer and always a Solo since the early drafts. They changed skylar to sam to finn and unrelated to Solos . And made kylo THE Solo to raise the stakes. He was always Ben(hope) Solo. Just ask Lucas. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  13. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    I think kylo is more powerful than we are made to believe till now. He wiil surprise us in IX.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  14. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    The thing about masking intentions is that Kylo never masked how he thought Rey would join him on the dark side. He flat out said that one. Both of them said they saw the other joining their side and didn't hear the other that they would not switch sides.

    Kylo did manage to disguise his intention to kill Snoke from both Snoke and Rey. So I do think he has the ability to hide. Though he looked at Rey when he said he knew what he had to do, and there was kind of a hint in that expression. I think it sent some assurance as right after Snoke mocked Rey for thinking she could turn him.

    But he'd stopped trying to hide from Rey as the Star Wars databank said and he wasn't in general "strong enough" to hide his conflict from her, as Snoke said. What Rey was sensing was real. Her mistake was in thinking this conflict meant he would turn. It's not that simple.

    In general, yes, Ben was able to hide the growing darkness in him from Luke for a long time. Though Anakin's darkness remained hidden from Obi-Wan for a while too. That might be different though as I think Obi-Wan just didn't want to see it. His love for Anakin blinded him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  15. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Skylar Solo's role got SPLIT into Sam/Finn and Kylo Ren. It wasn't a clean break into one character. Hence the clearly similar name, but changed.

    And no, the Jedi Killer wasn't named Kylo before the split. Skywalker + Solo is the origin of that name.

    The Jedi Killer was a completely different role from the Solo son who goes evil in a later episode. The Jedi Killer role was an apprentice of what became Snoke that was already evil before the son fell. Skylar was a separate character entirely.

    Harrison Ford is the one who changed Skylar Solo into Ben Solo. J.J. Abrams has outright said that Harrison changed the name. Harrison and Carrie both have a history of doing extensive rewrites of their scripts (their handwritten notes exist) or changing cinema history forever (a combination of improv, dysentery and injuries in Harrison's case). Ben Kenobi and Ben Solo both happen to be named after Harrison's own son, along with General Willard being named after another son. George never called the kid Ben. Thea/Kira and Skylar/Sam were the early names. Harrison's leg injury gave J.J. the opportunity to rewrite the TFA script further, which resulted in Han and Rey having a much less contentious relationship.

    "Boring conversation anyway." was improv after Harrison hated George's dialog. Irvin and Harrison completely rewrote the Carbonite scene themselves without letting Carrie in on it changing (Harrison and Carrie weren't on speaking terms because of that) and George wasn't happy about "I know." instead of "I love you, too." Carrie made most of her dialog smarter and did some script doctoring on TLJ. Harrison's notes rearrange a lot of the Ark exposition dialog in Raiders. Famously, the Arab swordsman scene in Raiders where he's shot instead of an elaborate sword vs. bullwhip fight was due to the entire cast and crew minus Spielberg having dysentery from food poisoning in Tunisia (the shot where Harrison's knee got run over by a plane is also in the film). It's definitely in character for him to suggest and change things himself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  16. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    Nope jedi killer was always a Solo. It was Lucas's idea.
    Originally the idea was that Jedikiller (kylo) will fall during VII and force bond between him and kira(rey) will be established. Kira and Skylar(finn)who was then a Solo will go on the adventure. Kira will meet Luke.
    Jedi killer the big bad was to be revealed Solo in VIII.
    But Arndt changed that and made jedi killer The Solo , bigger stakes that way. Skylar became finn the stromtooper. Kira became Rey both unrelated to skywalkers.
    JJ revealed Ben Solo in VII.
    It was arndt 's idea for Luke to appear at the end of TFA. JJ kept it.
    Jedi killer was always a Solo, he just became The Solo.
    Kira and Jedi killer were never related.
     
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  17. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    NO, the Jedi Killer was a SEPARATE character who was already evil.

    The Solo son was MERGED with the separate character when J.J. decided to make the Solo son having been turned prior to TFA, rather than later. George's VII was more like TLJ than TFA. The Jedi Killer was an apprentice of what became Snoke and the villain in VII before the Solo son ever turned to the Dark Side. Skylar/Sam Solo was always meant to be with Thea/Kira Solo while she battled the entirely unrelated Jedi Killer in the snowy forest. The Jedi Killer was Darth Talon, not Kylo Ren/Ben Solo.

    Finn was an entirely later creation by J.J. and Kasdan. George never created him. He just ended up with the part that would have been the Solo son's during that fight with the Jedi Killer apprentice.

    Arndt's draft was more like George's plans, which means that Luke was throughout the film (not just the end) and it more closely resembled TLJ, but with more offspring. J.J. thought that Luke completely overwhelmed the film and the new character introductions. George wanted to know where Vader's grandchildren were when he saw TFA, because it was barely his story. The snowy forest fight is one of the few elements that remained intact. The Solo son had not yet turned in George's version of VII.

    Darth Talon got dropped entirely as a character and merged into the son.

    This is Darth Talon a.k.a. the Jedi Killer. She's a chick! At one point, Snoke was also female.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  18. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    RJ on Kylo's betrayal:

    “In my mind, he walks in there knowing basically that he is going to betray Snoke but he doesn’t know yet exactly what the mechanism is and what his opportunity is going to be. But he’s gone in there with the intent of, whether it’s now or whether it’s later or whenever it is, when he brings Rey in there, he’s had that connection with her and what he says in the elevator… from that, in my head I thought, ‘Okay, he knows he’s going to do this but he doesn’t know how yet’ and when he sees that opportunity with that lightsaber next to him and sees Snoke distracted and realizes he can give this an attempt, he goes for it.”

    The more RJ talks the more it undercuts the movie because he's trying to make us understand what isn't present in the movie because he didn't bring it out. It's clearly a move invented to surprise without actual motivational set-up. It's against the Kylo Ren of TFA (which was hours ago) and what little we know of him and his relationship to Snoke. It also makes why he turned in the first place even more confused. Why not use some of that supposed conflict that is going on. The most conflict we see is when he kills Han and thinks about killing Leia so why not use that?

    Once Ren suddenly gets smart why not keep that? Then on a dime again he reverts back to the same old Ren which basically means the First Order is doomed under his leadership.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  19. ReyRandom

    ReyRandom Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Well, i have to disagree with you. After I watched the film I actually thought he already made up his mind about betraying Snoke before he entered the throne room because of everything leading up to it. I mean the conversation in the elevator made it all the more obvious - he interpreted his vision as seeing a future with Rey, he saw hope and in his mind he wanted to start a new order with her. Kylo always knew deep down that Snoke was using/manipulating him for his power, he knew his father was right and that's why he was enraged because he gave "everything to the darkside" by killing his father and yet Snoke mocked him further. He couldn't kill his mother because I don't believe he's an all encompassing dark-sider at heart and he knew it would tear him up further. Additionally, his force-bonds with Rey were so intense and intimate.

    Kylo is a conflicted character driven by his emotions. That's why Supreme Leader Ren makes it that much more interesting cause he's SO unpredictable but clearly has a strong pull to the lightside.
     
  20. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Thanks for the info. I had seen the artwork of Darth Talon in Episode VII. Really, if they wanted to reinterpret the EU, they could have done something good.

    I'm just going to leave this here for debate. Sometimes, I think the Sequel Trilogy is more like the prequels than the middle trilogy. But perhaps it's a synthesis of the two? Not in the writing, but according to our perception. I may be giving too much credit to it, but that makes it more interesting to me.

    Undoubtedly, if Rey and Kylo had gotten together, it would have been as bad as, if not worse than, the relationship between Anakin and Padme. Anakin and Padme's relationship was doomed due to both sides, with Anakin's obsession and instability, and Padme's enabling and passive-aggressive tendencies. I think Rey and Kylo are both young people trying to figure themselves out, but I don't really get the desire for Rey to be with anyone. What's wrong with a single character? But Ren needs a lot of help that I don't think Rey can provide. Padme tried to help Anakin, and it didn't work. You can't really save people like this anymore than you can save anyone else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  21. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2014
    Kylo absolutely was planning to kill Snoke way before entering the throne room. As he connected with Rey through the Force, and built a connection with her, no doubt he started to contemplate killing Snoke. When they were in the elevator going up, he was 100% committed to it. Just didn't know how exactly it would transpire.
     
  22. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    The RJ quote was pretty much exactly what I thought happened. Kylo's very well IN character, imo. I think RJ understands Kylo's character well.

    In the elevator he even says, "when the time comes, you'll be the one to turn."

    As in he knows this time will come. My interpretation was he didn't know HOW. I thought he knelt and started meditating as soon as he got in the room because he needs the Force to show him how he can kill Snoke. He knows the future, but he doesn't know how the present will create it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  23. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Some huge stuff related to Ben Solo in The Last Jedi extended edition:

    Toddler Kylo often played with the dice or showed it around in adoration of his father. Kylo would break stuff around the house with the Force while growing up. Leia and Han would worry behind closed doors, which Kylo did not like.

    Kylo does not fire on Leia, because he feels she is not angry at him.

    Rey accesses Kylo's powers, but Kylo finds Rey's memories.

    Kylo built his first own saber, if anyone wanted to be sure.

    Luke explores the Cosmic Force after having reconnected with the Living Force. Rey is a clear instrument of the will of the cosmic force. He also finds Leia again in the Force. The will of the Cosmic Force was asleep after the end of the Sith and awoke during Luke's exile. Living Force is the energy of life. Cosmic Force is the will of the universe.

    Before Reylo handtouching scene. Luke: "Rey, you were right. I'm coming with you."

    Kylo smiles at cramped up Rey in the escape pod.

    Kylo says saber is his, Rey says it called to her in the castle.

    Rey says she saw the shape of Kylo's future when they touched hands before, and it is solid and clear.
    That he will not bow before Snoke and will turn.

    Kylo saw her past instead.

    Just before the elevator door opens Rey realizes Kylo's churning emotions are not only about himself, but also about her.

    Rey's eyes are filled with joy after the carnage.

    Kylo in response to Ben: 'That's my old name'.

    Kylo thinks that Rey leaving him alive will be her demise.

    Rey's error was that she thought Kylo's turn would be simple. He only rebelled against Snoke, but the future holds a range of possibilities.

    Kylo brought Hux so he can't betray him.

    Rey learned Force knowledge from Kylo Ren’s mind.

    Rey has no compassion for Kylo anymore and severed the connection between them.
     
  24. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    The last one is wrong. It's Kylo's POV, not Rey's. The leaker corrected this explicitly. He's the one full of doubt about her feelings towards him who thinks he sees that in her expression. None of this scene is written from Rey's POV or tells what she is actually thinking.

    You also forgot the one of him hearing of himself being talked about like he was a monster behind closed doors even by family, which ties in explicitly to the rumors about his birth in Aftermath.

    He was also intending to stop the attack on his mother with the Force, but he was caught by surprise. We get a page of memories from Leia about Ben's childhood, as well as thoughts from Kylo about his mother not being angry and his feelings about being sent off to Luke.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  25. kylosympathizer

    kylosympathizer Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Where are the last two messages information coming from? Where did you guys find these spoilers?

    I am loving these details
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018