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Advisory Council-Needed or Unnecessary

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Master Salty, Jan 28, 2003.

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  1. Ternian

    Ternian Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2000
    Let's review.

    Weakness of the AC:

    1) Only represents 12 opinions therefore not giving a range of response to ideas.

    2) AC members are elected by previous members meaning that other opinions are may never be heard.

    3) Creates an elite group of people singled out by titles and private forums.

    4) The Forum cannot be seen, so no one knows if their opinion is being accurately represented.

    5) The Communications Forum already exists for member/mod discussions.

    Strengths of the AC:

    1) Mods can present ideas to a select group of members without possible drama.

    ___________________________________________

    Possible outcomes:

    1. Disband the AC.

    * Remove the AC altogether.
    * Return the Communications forum to its original purpose.

    or

    2. Reformation.

    * Make the AC Forum available for public viewing.
    * Remove titles.
    * Reform member elections:

    - Have mods choose one member to represent them in the Council.

    OR

    - Have one member per forum represented, elected by that forum's mod or Admin.

    * Change members every month with no previous member being allowed to be re-elected.

     
  2. Ariana Lang

    Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 1999
    Ok. I'm not reading 15 pages of posts, and I'm sure my opinion will get lost in the shuffle like it always does.

    I think that the biggest problem here is that the old AC members elect the new ones. This is just a breeding ground for nepotism. This kind of "incest" if you will basically makes the AC an unreliable and untrustworthy body, if not in reality, than certainly in the minds of us commoners. I don't know exactly what would be the best way to fix it; certainly not a whole user vote, and maybe a mod voting system would end up doing the exact same thing, but with the diversity of mods, I think perhaps there's a better chance of people not just picking their own friends or the appearance of that.

    The AC could be useful. But the system it has now just breeds distrust and anger.
     
  3. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Moderators should not have any real input into the selection of AC members other than to comment on rules violations by members that would/should preclude them serving in any trusted capacity.

    And even then, I'm not quite so sure that past offenses should automatically remove anyone from consideration.

    The AC should always be an institution of the regular users.

    Although, I agree that polling's out of the question.
     
  4. Ariana Lang

    Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 1999
    Well old ACers electing new ACers doesn't work. In governments, when things like that have happend, it's been chaos and nepotism and sucking up and etc. etc. etc. Something needs to be changed. I don't have a good solution, but it definitely needs to change.
     
  5. Porkins in a Speedo

    Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    she's right, ya know.
     
  6. neeldawg66

    neeldawg66 Jedi Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2002
    I agree with Ariana Lang.
     
  7. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    I understand how you might think that people nominating their replacements might not be the best system. It's a valid concern.

    What would you suggest as an alternative?
     
  8. Porkins in a Speedo

    Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    teh randomizer.

    as in random selection. randomly select people and give them short terms, that way more people can get an opportunity and if someone who's not too bright is in there then you don't have to worry about being stuck with them for too long.
     
  9. GriffZ

    GriffZ Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 27, 2001

    Perhaps each forum should elect a member to represent it, with larger forums like the 3SA and Community having two or three members.

    Although public elections open up a whole new can of worms.

    Oh, and titles are fine; I don't see anything wrong with them. And if the AC forum becomes public, it wouldn't be much different than Comms.

     
  10. RidingMyCarousel

    RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2002
    How about random interviews such as what AC3 did? Randomly PM users, but this time, not in Comms -- in the rest of the forums.

    Draw up 3 or 4 names, have ..say, Kadue, the new Supreme Chancellor, write up a list of these members who are well informed and number them. Each category of forums ought to have 3 or 4 names. And then the AC picks 2 numbers per each category. After that, tally them all up and there you have it. The new AC.

    ...this is just a play off the randomizer idea. ;)
     
  11. Qui Gon Jim23

    Qui Gon Jim23 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Actually GrippZ, I was thinking along the same lines, only to keep the numbers down, have maybe two or three from each category, i.e. 2-3 from JCC, 3 from SW Films, 3 from Lit., 2 from Fan Activities, 1 from Welcome and maybe two at large members. That would give the group in the neighborhood of 12-14 members, which is not to unweildy.

    Then the individual forums could decide how they want to pick their own members, in the same way that the U.S. States decide how to elect their representatives.

    That would guarantee representation.



    EDIT: me = teh antispeller
     
  12. Porkins in a Speedo

    Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    the problem with elections is that they usually end up as popularity contests.

    randomly selecting people (from each forum) is the only completely unbiased way to choose people.

    and btw, i've filed a patent for Teh Randomizer?. ;)
     
  13. GriffZ

    GriffZ Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 27, 2001

    The problem with choosing random people is you can end up with seriously underqualified people. Sure elections can be a popularity contest, but chances are those people got popular by spending a lot of time in that forum, so at the very least they're familiar with it.

     
  14. Qui Gon Jim23

    Qui Gon Jim23 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Like I said, the individual forums could decide on their own how to pick their reps.

    Random picks have the probability of getting someone that might never participate, but that would be up to each category to decide.

    EDIT: And what GriffZ said.
     
  15. Ariana Lang

    Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 1999
    Another problem with randomizers is you could elect someone who a)hasn't touched the board in years or b)has posted like once in Episode III and somehow got elected to represent that board.

    *sigh* There really is no perfect solution. The answer needs to be the lesser of the evils, I guess. And right now that looks like elections, even though those can become popularity contests.
     
  16. Porkins in a Speedo

    Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    ok, then if you want 12 people, randomly select 20. and then choose the best 12 of the group. OR, choose/elect 20 people who are qualified and would make a good choice, and then randomly select 12 from that group.


    EDIT: criteria should be established and applied to the randomly selected people. if someone doesn't meet the necessary criteria, randmomly choose another. ...and continue to do so until you have 12 people that represent the various forums and meet all the criteria.
     
  17. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    What is everyone's view on letting someone (aside from a "permanent" member) serve more than one term? Not necessarily back to back, but what if AC4 thought someone from AC1 or AC2 would be a good pick again?
     
  18. RidingMyCarousel

    RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2002
    and btw, i've filed a patent for Teh Randomizer?.
    -- Darn you. ;)

    And why not have the ACers of their own forums come up with 3 names and the mods with one? I mean, they should know their forums the best, right? Or something along those lines to help bring fresh air? And then use the process I mentioned above?

     
  19. GriffZ

    GriffZ Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 27, 2001

    Perhaps the outgoing AC members, in conjunction with the Moderator(s) of that forum could shortlist 10-20 people, and then the members of that forum could vote on who they want.

    //shrugs

     
  20. Porkins in a Speedo

    Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    jeff,

    well, you have to incorporate the issue of term limits, then. the shorter the term limit, the less problematic it is if someone wants to serve a second term.

    EDIT: the next person to post at the same time as me is gonna get an e-punch in the mouth. >:eek:
     
  21. Spike_Spiegal

    Spike_Spiegal Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2002
    I have no real problem with it.

    But I'd like to see the break be two whole terms before they can come back.
     
  22. Ariana Lang

    Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 1999
    I think that they if they get re-elected, that would be fine. I'm not sure if a limit needs to put on it or not. Perhaps some sort of limit, or some sort of "no more than ___ many times can they be elected in ____ (a year, 2 years)

    The AC cycles every three months correct? So perhaps no more than twice a year. (that's half the terms) or maybe even once a year. The problem with that is that you do have a possible problem of just cycling the same people in and out. However, as some people have said, the more they get to do it, the better they will become, so I personally do not think letting someone only be a member of the AC once is effective.
     
  23. Porkins in a Speedo

    Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    3 month terms are too long. shorter terms will get you a broader spectrum of people and their ideas in there and more opporunity for second terms.
     
  24. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    I don't think three months is too long. If you shorten it by much, you'll lose much of the continuity that's present in each AC. Running new people in and out can be disruptive.

    Edit: One word makes a big difference.
     
  25. Master Salty

    Master Salty Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 1999
    ...criteria should be established and applied to the randomly selected people

    What I'm looking for is someone that knows the forum, understands the rules, is very helpful to other members, not afraid to challenge something they perceive as wrong, and will be proactive on bringing up issues for the Mods to deal with.
     
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